Liz, recently diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, shares her incredible progress after implementing significant lifestyle changes. In this episode, she provides nine fundamental tips that have significantly improved her condition.

We discuss in this interview:

• Liz’s initial symptoms and diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis after surgery, and her journey to finding effective treatment.
• The profound impact of daily exercise, including cycling and elliptical workouts, on managing RA symptoms.
• How avoiding fried foods and processed meals has significantly reduced her inflammation and joint pain.
• The importance of limiting alcohol intake to prevent aggravating symptoms.
• Hydration’s crucial role in maintaining joint flexibility and overall well-being.
• The benefits of stretching and yoga in increasing mobility and reducing discomfort.
• How staying connected with supportive communities and ongoing education has fueled her motivation and health journey.
• Liz’s commitment to a plant-based diet, avoiding gluten, dairy, and sugars, to keep her RA symptoms in check.
• The potential for reintroducing certain foods like gluten through traditional sourdough as part of personalized dietary flexibility.

Clint – If you’ve got inflammatory arthritis like rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, etc., this podcast is for you. I’ve got a guest today who has a diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis. Symptoms have been going on for some time as she’ll get into, but only diagnosed four months ago. She’s taken immediate and significant action with her lifestyle changes, and been able to achieve phenomenal results in a very short period of time. We’re going to hear her story, and she’s got nine fundamental tips that she swears by to keep herself feeling amazing. We’re going to go through all those tips in this podcast. Liz, welcome to this episode.

Liz – Thank you very much. Hello, Clint.

Clint – Hello. And this is going to be fun. You’re going to share lots of awesome stuff with our audience. Before we get into those nine tips, tell us at your worst what worst symptoms like and how are you today when you get up and go about your day?

Liz – I think a perfect way to describe it is that I think about two different times. Just last week, I was on an airplane and I got up at the end of the flight, stood up, walked, picked up my baggage, walked down the aisle. No pain. Now, this time a year ago, I couldn’t get my baggage up above, I needed help to stand up. I was holding on all around me, and I had to hold on to seats all the way down the aisle just to get out of the airplane. And it’s just that it’s just not like that anymore.

Clint – Amazing. Okay, so why don’t we go through when the diagnosis happened? Why, if the worst was a year ago, were you just diagnosed four months ago? Let’s sort of bring clarity around that. What drugs you’re taking? And just build a little bit of understanding around your current status. And then we’ll go through these nine tips that have helped you to become so symptom free and feeling so good. Okay, so when did this sort of begin originally which joints are affected and tell us that?

Liz – Well, it began in an interesting way. I fell on the ice a year and a half ago, right around Christmas time, and I broke my wrist and I had to have surgery and metal put in my wrist and pins. And from that point on, um, I was in a cast for a while and I stopped exercising. And I’ve always been very physically active. I do outdoor sports and, like circuit training, things like that. Just trying to keep going. And it started with that surgery and my hand, it started about two weeks after I had the surgery. My hands and my fingers started to hurt. And I, I had trouble opening them in the morning, I had to physically open my fingers and my wrists hurt beyond the wrist surgery. All of a sudden my other wrist hurt, and all of a sudden my other hand hurt. And then I had already had aches and pains, I’m 68 years old. I was stiff in the morning, just from aging and a lot of workout pain just from maybe falling off a bike or, um, or working too hard or doing, you know, certain weights one day. But this was completely different, completely different. And it went down, it went into my neck and my shoulders, not my elbows, but my wrists and hands. And then the really strange thing was that it went to my hips and my knees, and that was brand new. And that was, um, very difficult to deal with. And I’ve been very fortunate in that it hasn’t hit my ankles or my feet.

Clint – Did you have antibiotics, IV or oral when you had your surgery?

Liz – I did, yeah, I had antibiotics.

Clint – Have you ever made the connection that it could have been the antibiotic use that may have been the straw on the camel’s back, that may have flipped the microbiome to the point where then you develop enough leakiness in the bowel to develop autoimmune disease.

Liz – That was brought up to me because I did eventually see a functional medicine doctor, and she brought that up to me. And also my rheumatologist felt that it was that the RA came on with the surgery, with the trauma of the surgery. And that I must have been just primed and ready to go and it just triggered it. Now, my functional medicine doctor then put everything together with the leaky gut and possible, you know, possibly with the antibiotics, and a lot of antibiotics over the years.

Clint – This is the main thing. So obviously around the world as we’re speaking now, there’s probably hundreds of people in this very instant who are undergoing surgical procedures. Those people are not coming out of that two weeks later with rheumatoid arthritis, the association of that is almost negligible. However, we know that there is a cumulative risk increase with antibiotic use of developing RA, meaning the more in the past you’ve had, the higher your risk in the future of having RA. And we also know that there is a recency association, meaning that if you’ve only had them recently, the risk is higher at that point. And so you’ve got you had both in this instance a long like a history of having quite a lot of antibiotics and then also just having had antibiotics. And so, as you as I’m meeting you here and we’re chatting about this, and you look healthy and fit and we’re about to get into that. It wouldn’t jump out at me that the surgery was the trauma was the the main issue here. However, we don’t know. And now we talk about what did you do about it. So, um, you have our part of our Paddison Program, which you joined around February earlier this year. So it’s going back like four months or something. But you also eventually went and saw the rheumatologist and started treatment. Talk about this period here after you got those onset of symptoms and then you eventually went through and saw the doctor talk about that. And then we’ll get into your nine tips of what you did next.

Liz – Do you want to hear about the system that I may how I finally got to the doctor or I actually went through? I went through numerous doctors, different kinds. And one put, uh, let’s see, I started with my the doctor that did my wrist, and he had suggested that I see a rheumatologist because there was more pain. But before that I saw my general practitioner and she suggested that I go off gluten and thought that I sounded like I had an autoimmune issue going on, especially with the fact that I had have a first cousin who was just diagnosed. And so I went to see a Rheumatologist. The rheumatologist put me on a leave for two weeks, and I felt fantastic, and then when I went off, I felt horrible. And then he said, if you feel bad afterwards, come back, I’ll put you on steroids, and I didn’t want to do that. So he sent me to a vascular surgeon, a vascular specialist, because my toes were cold and blue. And so I saw that doctor and that doctor said, and I told that doctor I’d been going through, you know, seeing other doctors having to do with this joint pain I had. And that doctor said, well, that’s just how your toes are, you know, that’s just you. So out of desperation, I went to a functional medicine doctor, thank goodness, because that is how I eventually got to the right rheumatologist who diagnosed me.

Liz – But along that path, the functional medicine doctor had already had me, and I know that you’ve been through a lot of this too. Already had me on a lot of supplements and did a lot of testing, including the metal testing. We thought, am I having a reaction to the metal in my wrist? Am I having a reaction to implants in my teeth? We didn’t know. And, uh, so I ended up getting the diagnosis that it was in my functional medicine doctor said that she believed that I had seronegative rheumatoid arthritis, which is why it wasn’t picked up. She felt that I had seronegative but vector positive and sent me to the rheumatologist and he confirmed it. This one, he confirmed it, put me on Plaquenil. And when I mentioned that I was gluten free, um, he said, why? And I said, well, because, um, one of my doctors suggested that I do that for the joints. And he’s like, well, if you want. Okay. And then the next time I saw him, I said I was also dairy-free. And he said, why do you have celiac? And I said, no, but I believe that it’s having an effect on my inflammation. And I just found you like the next week after a lot of research, a lot, a lot, a lot of research, a lot of negative stuff I heard on the internet. You know, a lot of victim. I choose to be a victor instead of a victim. A lot of victimization, you know, with RA and, uh, negative comments about they need help and people aren’t helping them. And, and I just think there’s another way and and, um, after giving up the dairy, the gluten, I was already off of. What I did is I took it very seriously once I found you on the internet and I saw your Ted talk. I thought, okay, I’m going to do this, I’m just going to do it seriously. However, I’m going to make it fit in with my life. So I might be doing it a little bit backwards. But I am wholeheartedly convinced that the key to how good I feel now isn’t the drug. Although I’m not ready to cut back on the drug yet, but I can show you that it is coming from the food, the way I eat, and the exercise.

Clint – Yeah. Fantastic. What did they start you on the doctor? Uh. And what are you taking now? Have you already started to taper any of the drug?

Liz – Okay, he started me on Plaquenil, and I was taking it every other day. I was alternating 20mg and ten milligrams, and now I’m doing three times a week on 20mg, four times a week on ten milligrams, so I am down a little bit. And that it has not been an issue at all. So my goal is to eventually cut down more. However, um, I want to work my way to that by experimenting with the food, which I’ve been doing a lot of.

Clint – Yeah, great. Um, and for people who are wondering, oh, well, isn’t just the drug actually doing a lot of the heavy lifting here, we’ll explore that in a minute. We’ll get into why you and I, uh, have a very strong understanding of how the lifestyle is playing a predominant role here. Uh, let’s get into your nine tips here, because you feel great, don’t you, Liz? I mean, when you wake up in the morning, what’s it like on the feet, the hands, the wrists when you get out of bed at the moment?

Liz – I feel fine. I actually, like pop out of bed, which is very different from having to lift one arm with another arm to get to get over, to reach something to help me out of bed. But it’s really nice, it’s wonderful. I feel like my old self again. I feel great.

Clint – Awesome. Okay. Tip number one. Walk us through it. Exercise daily.

Liz – To exercise daily, absolutely. I do something every day. Now, I do occasionally take a day off. But what I’ve done to make it manageable for myself, and this is really key. First of all, there are a couple of exercises that are that I do that don’t feel like exercise to me because I love them so much, and that is hiking and cycling. And those have been a big part of my life for many years. And so that’s just a bonus that I love riding my bike. However, I don’t like riding a bike indoors. So what I but I have to sometimes because I live in an area with cold winters. So what I do is I’ve really stuck to this. I really limit my exercise sessions unless I happen to be out on a long bike ride for fun. I really limit my exercise sessions to 45 minutes and it’s because I know myself, I’ve been kicking around long enough to know that if I go too much longer, I’ll start competing with myself, wanting to go longer, and I’ll burn myself out and I’ll quit. But if I can keep it in a manageable length and 45 minutes works for me. Um, then I can do this. I can do it every day.

Clint – Wonderful. And predominantly, is that on a bike? Because you love that. That’s your preferred exercise?

Liz – Yes. It’s. I love the strider. I go to a like a local health club when the weather isn’t nice, and I can be on a strider like one of those, I don’t know, another word for it, you know what?

Clint – Elliptical?

Clint – Yeah, elliptical. I like the elliptical. I go to a place called Orange Theory, and that is like a circuit It. That’s that’s an hour long, I don’t like that. I like 45 minutes, but, that’ll be rowing, which I could not do several months ago I couldn’t row up and some weights, light weights. But mainly I will do an elliptical and ride a stationary bike. And if the weather is good, I’m out on my bike or hiking.

Clint – Lovely. Yeah, I like the elliptical balancing the bike because you also get your upper body moving because the elliptical has those handles that you hold on to as well. And that way we’re getting some activity through the upper body. Um, so I like hearing about that for balancing, especially since you’ve had wrist and finger intervention in the past. So great. Okay. Exercise every day. Let me ask you this. If someone said you’re not allowed to exercise for the next two months, how much fear comes into your body, that this might compromise your RA symptoms. Like how much does this sort of alarm you? If I said you’re not allowed to exercise.

Liz – A lot, a high level of alarm, I would not like that. I would feel that I would really have to make extreme changes in other areas where I am managing to keep my life pretty livable. I think I’d have to give up some other things.

Clint – Right. You’re saying if exercise got dropped, you’d really have to tighten up the diet. You have no cheating, you’d have to be perfect. Yeah, okay. And what we’re talking about here, folks, if you’re new to our channel, we’re talking about a whole food plant-based diet. No oils, no dairy, no processed foods, no meats. Okay. And so what we’re talking about here is also a sequence of food eating by groups where Foods are presented in a sequence. So to promote the right species of bacteria in the bowel, to produce more short chain fatty acids ultimately heal leaky gut as well as reduce oxidative stress, produce more B vitamins for energy, amino acids for muscle development, etc., etc.. And so Liz is indicating that if she didn’t have access to the exercise, we have to double down on the diet. At the moment she’s in a nice balance with her lifestyle, her family and everything and that’s fine because of her results, right? Okay, let’s move on to number two. Stay away from anything that is fried food. Talk about that.

Liz – Deadly for me. Uh, it really is. And I didn’t realize it until a month and a half ago when I was feeling really good and decided to eat a pile of French fries, I mean, a pile a lot, a lot. And that just kind of led to more garbage when I got home and the whole thing. The next two days, I was in a car, on a long drive, a day drive. And by the time by the end of the second day, my feet were very swollen, very, very swollen. And I know you know what I mean when I say I had basically locked up. I was having trouble turning my head from side to side. My hands were painful again, my knees, my hips, which is something I hadn’t experienced in quite a while. So I saw to me that was very black and white. That was the way I ate, and the aftermath.

Clint – Yeah. And if no one else has experienced this, who’s watching or listening now, then you just aren’t aware of the connection because when you eat clean and then you take fried food as an exception, you then have the backdrop of having not had that in your system for a while. Able to compare the impact of this Kryptonite for RA, which is cooked oils, and then be able to see, oh my gosh, now I see against the backdrop of low pain and good eating, what this stuff does to the body.

Liz – It was so clear. And you know, my nutty thinking was, I’m with all my friends, I’m not going to see them for a month, so I’m just going to blow it out, eat, and drink. But it was the fried foods because that is something I’ve really stayed away from. I haven’t touched it since.

Clint – Yeah. Fantastic. And this is one of the disqualifiers with how well is the Plaquenil managing your Symptoms. Well, clearly, if you were to eat like the average Western person eating high processed foods and fried foods here and there, and we don’t even realize cooked oils are in so many things, including those, you know, fake meat burgers, and all sorts of things. Everything’s going to light you up like a Christmas tree if you just eat like a Western diet. So we don’t bow down to the Plaquenil drug as if it’s all whole and mighty. What we do is, we think, to give our grace to the lifestyle, and the drug is acting as a support to the lifestyle. And so, um, a great illustration there. Avoid cooked oils this is not just Liz, this is everyone. Okay. Number three limit alcohol.

Liz – Limit alcohol. Yeah. I don’t want to, um, but I like my wine and. But I’ve cut way back on it. I went through a period of about, I’ll make this really short of about ten years where I stopped doing it about 12 years ago, but I went for ten years without eating sugar, flour and wheat. And that meant alcohol because, um, I was trying to keep my weight down, and I just didn’t care, so I didn’t I didn’t drink, and then and then eventually it I wanted, I wanted a normal lifestyle again, it’s hard to explain. So now I drink in moderation, i just drink, you know, a little bit here and there, and sometimes I do drink more. And if I do, if I do it more than two days in a row, I will pay for it. I will start to lock up. It starts up in my neck and the first sign is usually not being able to turn my head, and then my hands, my hands will lock up. And that’s if I do something like drinking more than one, you know, one night out.

Clint – Do you normally just drink wine or are you drinking anything else?

Liz – I just drink wine, pretty much just wine every once in a while. Oh actually um, I had last month I had two margaritas that were really strong, hadn’t eaten enough, i was on vacation. My food hadn’t been clean the day before, and, um, and it made me sick.

Clint – Vomiting.

Liz – No, I didn’t vomit, but it just I, I like, went to sleep for hours and felt horrible, absolutely horrible. I was like, totally out of it. It was awful. I can’t be doing that, I’m too old to do that stuff.

Clint – I don’t think it comes as any surprise that we should limit alcohol when people are really desperate just to be able to have the occasional drink, to be social and to feel somewhat connected to conventional social activities. I find that a recommendation of an occasional single red wine to be a nice sort of compromise. So seems contradictory to say that’s okay when you’ve just said two glasses or more causes you problems. And I’m not advising anyone have any alcohol. Doctor Clapper says in an interesting illustration that before surgery, the surgeon soak their surgical equipment in alcohol to kill bacteria. Why would we then put the same substance into our body when we’re trying to promote a microbiome that is thriving, rich, full of healthy bacteria? So he makes that colorful illustration. There are some polyphenols in red wine that are associated with some health benefits. However, you’ve got the alcohol angle, I think suffice for us to move on and say have no alcohol ideally, or just a little amount of red wine here and there if you must. And I think everyone be happy with that. Let’s go to number four. This is these are your lists. This is Liz’s nine ways that she stays in great shape with RA. And number four is drink tons of water.

Liz – Yes, yes, I have it right here. I always have it nearby. Um, I drink a lot, a lot of water. And that’s one of your recommendations and when I don’t, I pay for it. It you know, everything will just kind of kind of comes together. And when say why pay for it. It’s the neck, the hands and then moves down from there. But, uh, yeah, I’ve got to drink a lot of water.

Clint – Yeah. Again, another one of these common sense ones, the ones where we know. But it’s good to get a reminder. And what I see so clearly with my kids is if they don’t drink much as kids do, they don’t think of it as like an actual a an important thing like we do as adults. If my child is sitting on the toilet for more than 30 seconds because in a plant based family, 30s is a long time to be sitting on the toilet without going number two. All right. And if they’re sitting there longer than 30 seconds, I say you’re dehydrated you need to drink water. They drink water, and if I give them a full cup of water within two minutes, they have a bowel movement. And so this sounds exaggerated, it’s not, try it. If you’re sitting on a toilet, but just drink a ton of water like you do and bowels shift. Now we know that slow moving bowels equates to more RA symptoms. So where I make a connection that’s adequate for me to feel satisfied with this argument of high water intake, it helps our bowels move through faster. Anything that does that is a positive for RA.

Liz – I agree with you wholeheartedly. The water is good, it keeps things moving.

Clint – Exactly. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, we like that one now. This one’s interesting. Stretching through yoga. Talk about stretching and yoga.

Liz – Yes. And I really, I believe in, um, at least very warm yoga at least. Or stretching if it’s not in yoga. I’m really lucky where I am right now, there’s a hot tub, and right before this call, I was stretching in the hot tub. And, um, I believe that the stretching is just for me makes a huge difference. Just with flexibility and just, you know, how just how I feel. And I also, I also feel that, um, and I know that you do Bikram and I have done a lot of Bikram. I don’t have it available to me right now, but what I do is I’ll find whatever I can that’s hot or warm, and that will get me moving and sweating because I just absolutely believe that then I have to drink more water. Of course. But I believe that that, um. I think it’s a whole. I can only go by how I feel, and it’s a whole systemic feeling that exercise and stretching is part of that brings out of me. I’m looser, I can move easier. Just sleep better. Has a lot to do with it.

Clint – 100%. Yeah. No argument there. Great. Straight on to the next one because that one just works okay. Number five. Hot temperatures work better than cold. Obviously people, uh, you know, might use ice packs on joints again. Never saw any benefit in that. I think that anyway, we’re getting off topic. Um, we like that stretch use yoga, hot is better. Number six. You’ve written here. I continue to watch your videos. How is this a success strategy for you?

Liz – Liz I need a constant reminder. I need a constant reminder of that i am managing a disease, and I feel like I am in control of my RA. That it isn’t controlling me. Now, I know I’m very early on in the game, so I may, you know, I may have a lot of adjusting to do as you know, as I, as I get through this. But the videos have been so helpful to me. I really like watching, uh, listening to the other people. And one of the big things is that everything about what you do, Clint is positive. And there’s so much negative on the internet about like if you go to try to find a support group is it’s just complaining and how much it hurts. And I just think that there’s a whole other side to it. There really is because you can learn so much about yourself, if you have a disease that needs to be managed and and what what I’ve been learning about myself is that I’m more capable of doing. I’m capable of doing more than I thought and managing more than I thought. And anytime I’m just like, sitting around at home or whatever, I will, I will go into the website and and start looking at a video and they’re just they’re positive. They’re, um, they’re results driven, I always get something new in my head. I know from one of your videos, um, I have learned how to describe, um, RA and why I have to manage it, because that bothers friends of mine, they don’t get that. One of the things that you said in one of your videos was, and I think you used a hornet’s nest about poking the hornet’s nest. And that’s exactly what it is. And it’s like the it’s like the disease is a hornet’s nest in my body. And if I do all of the things I’m supposed to do, follow your suggestions and, and I take medication and with that right now, hoping to not have to do that forever. But it’s all part of what I’m doing now. As long as I do everything and exercise and drink the water and do the yoga and do the stretching and watched videos, then I am and my food is clean, the food has to be clean. Then I am not poking the hornet’s nest and I feel great. But as soon as I decide to eat some gluten, eat some dairy, skip a couple days of exercise or anything like that. I’m poking it a little bit and each poke makes it, you know, makes the hornet’s nest move. So that I got from one of your videos and I get something from each one that I watch and all the wonderful people that you’ve interviewed. And, you know, I feel like I’m not alone.

Clint – There’s a lot in that. Absolutely. Which is why we keep doing it. And thank you for contributing to the body of work that’s on this podcast. Even people who have been off meds, like you’ve said, symptom free for years, still tell me that they watch these interviews and still we still need to be refueled regularly of the potential, the reassurance, the optimism all associated with these kind of discussions, because the default with the disease is to be swept down river like a strong current and continue to get worse. It’s a progressive condition. Worse, worse, worse. And then you throw worse on top. That’s what the disease is. It never has a limit, a bottom of horror. And so we need to surround ourselves, flood the mind with strategies, with positivity, with the mindset approach needed to manage this correctly, to fill our brain with education, to answer questions from the doctor and also our community and family and so forth. I consider it an imperative. Part of staying well to my exposure is talking to others and learning constantly about what works and of course, managing my own disease. Okay. And so I’m constantly in these discussions. And so I feel an abundance of knowledge and contribution comes from having my bucket filled constantly with strategies and what works all the time. So I’m glad the videos are helping. Let’s encourage others to continue to do what you do, which is continue to almost like keep educating yourself and refilling the bucket.

Liz – Well, I found that it’s a it’s a lonely disease and it’s invisible. People don’t always believe it’s there and that I we have to do a lot of faking. Faking that we feel well, I do. You know, people are like, oh, are you faking this disease? I’m like, no, if I’m faking anything, I’m faking that I feel well, but I do now. I can actually say I do now, which is really great, as long as I am managing things and not poking the hornet’s nest.

Clint – Beautiful. Okay, now number seven is to continue to avoid gluten, dairy, simple sugars, and processed foods. And after you talk about that, I’m going to tell you how you can resume eating gluten again. Sound good?

Liz – Okay. Yeah.

Clint – What happens when you eat these foods and which ones are the worst for you? Gluten, dairy free sugars or processed foods?

Liz – I believe the order goes like this. Processed foods, and in that, that’s where I put isn’t that where I would put, like, fries and deep fried food and anything, anything that’s kind of fake, you know, chips, things like that. I put that as number one. Number two is sugar. Number three is dairy. And the number four is gluten.

Clint – Hmm. Okay. Yeah. You got told to come off gluten right from the start. So you’ve been years without eating it, and you’ve never. Have you ever challenged it back into your diet?

Liz – Yes, actually, I did eat gluten for quite a while. I just went off gluten, uh, about a year ago, a little over a year ago, when I saw my general practitioner about all the pain that I was having because I knew it wasn’t normal. And and she suggested that it would help with the joint pain. Now, an interesting thing is that it helped a little bit with the joint pain, but it took away the headaches that I was getting. And that was huge because I had a lot of headaches that, you know, before I cleaned up my food, a lot of headaches. So my feeling is that if there’s anything I could possibly eat again or that I can accidentally eat like accidentally on purpose, like, if it’s, you know, somebody’s birthday or something. I have a little piece of birthday cake or something like that. I feel like I can get away with that. As long as you don’t do it again the next day.

Clint – I hear you. It’s a dosage thing too, isn’t it? It’s a dosage thing.

Liz – Yes.

Clint – Right. Um. Yeah. Great. So of those we’ve actually got number nine is is again around cooked oils. And what does actually help you. So we’ll put aside that for the moment. But with regard to gluten, the way that I think about this is, um, imagine that your microbiome, it’s a weird metaphor. But imagine your microbiome is like a weightlifter and it can break down different foods coming in that we’re consuming because what bacteria does is ferment or break down the fibers of foods. And let’s say that it’s it’s great at breaking down a whole bunch of different proteins, but along comes gluten and it just can’t do it. So if it’s a weightlifter at the gym, it’s like it can get under the bench press and it can do all these different things. But the moment you put two big 45 plates on each side, it’s like gluten, it can’t lift it, it’s not strong enough, okay. There’s a limitation in its ability. But when we continue to nurture the bowel and develop an amazing, thriving, diverse microbiome rich in bacteria that create short chain fatty acids so that the bowel develops a beautiful layer of mucus over it, the cells of the intestinal lining are all neatly arranged, and we don’t lose cells due to eating oxidized oils. Then it has the ability to break down gluten, like it can now it’s developed the strength to bench press the plates.

Liz – That’s amazing.

Clint – That’s what we see, and so continue to do what you’re doing. And in due course, I would encourage you to start with sourdough bread, which contains gluten. Unless it’s oat sourdough, because oats are inherently gluten free. But if it’s a different sourdough during the traditional manufacturing of sourdough, which often can be a 48 hour process, the proteins are broken down by the bacteria in the bread, not in your bowel, but the bacteria do it for you in advance. This way, you’re eating the bread without that big challenge to the bowel. On having to break down gluten because it’s been mostly pre-digested and sourdough made well, traditionally tastes incredible. And so I don’t think you’re far off being about able to go and test some sourdough. And if you can eat sourdough, do we really need to care about then going and having conventional bread all the time. No, we can just live off sourdough when we want to have some bread, you know.

Liz – Right, exactly. And it kind of helps. It helps in just, um, making it all livable. Any little thing that will help, help make things livable and still keep the pain away. And I do understand the whole connection with the gut. I mean, it’s amazingly complicated and fabulous that there is an answer to this.

Clint – Total answer to this. And here’s a tip for processed foods. And the area in my life where I eat processed foods is cereals like Cheerios, for example, which the kids never eat here. But when we’re on vacation in the US, um, they’ll like to eat that at a hotel or something like that. Okay. Now, all we’re seeing here with Cheerios and then we’ll get into your last bullet points. Is that if I like the metaphor of a golf course. Okay. So with processed foods, think about your microbiome. What we’re trying to achieve as being a par five on a golf course is a long distance to go. From the moment you tee off, to eventually put the ball in the hole. And if people aren’t familiar with golf whatsoever, a par five golf hole on a course is one that’s very, very long and you’re expected to have to hit the ball many times to eventually get it down and get it into the hole, because it’s just too far for one shot. Okay. Now that is the human digestive system. There’s 22ft of small intestine alone. Okay. It’s a long way to get to the bowel. If we’re eating processed foods, what happens is that’s like taking out a club that can only hit the ball a short distance, hitting it a short distance, and then the ball gets lost in the grass, off to the side, off the fairway. It’s gone because the body has broken down and used up all of those simple sugars. There’s no fiber, it’s all been processed. Nothing gets in the hole at the end of the par five because the ball’s been lost on the first shot. Nothing feeds the microbiome. The microbiome therefore starts to feed itself. It starts to live off all of the other bacteria and bile acids and all this other stuff that’s coming through and what it can survive on, and it’s becoming dysbiotic. And therefore the processed foods isn’t necessarily ruining the microbiome because it’s feeding them the wrong thing. It doesn’t get there. It’s just giving them nothing, which doesn’t serve the microbiome. So we need to eat fibrous foods, whole foods, to get those foods like a par five all the way to the hole where the microbiome can have a face, so you can have some Cheerios in the future with your breakfast if you want to. As long as microbiome is fed adequately all the time, and as long as this processed food is just like some Cheerios or something and not deep fried food, which just destroys the intestinal lining.

Liz – Well, and that is good news, because those little situations come up every once in a while. Because I happen to love buckwheat, quinoa, millet, and and brown rice. I love the whole grains. And sometimes you’re at someone’s house and some you don’t know what’s, you know, slipped into something. So that’s good to know.

Clint – Yeah. Great. A little cheat here and there on something like that’s not going to be catastrophic. Let’s put it that way. Good. Okay. There’s two more here, and I’ve got five minutes. We’ve got we’re going to talk about eating more food, vegetables, salads and whole grains. And you just touched upon the millet, quinoa, etc.. How do these foods make you feel when you eat these sort of foods?

Liz – Well, and when I say eating more, I probably shouldn’t have the word more in there. Just continue eating these things because this is how I basically how I eat now. Unless I make a conscious choice to eat something that I know might cause a problem the next day. And sometimes I make that choice and it’s all my fault, and I know I have no one else to blame. But the fruits and vegetables, I eat pretty much the same thing every morning, and I’m fine with that. Usually I eat whole grains with fruit in them, or I eat oat bran and oatmeal, and I make sure that it’s gluten free because I know some is made in. But mostly I eat like this morning I had rice and quinoa for breakfast with, uh, cut up apple in it and tofu. And that was my breakfast, and I like it a lot. And I’ve kind of been eating like that for a long time. So this has been it hasn’t been hard to eat this way. But I think what people don’t realize is when you stop eating certain things, the things that you thought never had any flavor, as you know, have so much flavor. Lettuce has a ton of flavor and spinach. And I love those foods. And I am fine not using the oil on a salad. If it’s there, you know it has it. You know, I’ll check and see if it’s, you know, olive oil. Otherwise I’ll just I’ll just use vinegar and, um, just with travel, I just make sure that I have apple apples with me. And and I eat a lot of nuts. A lot of beans. Um, just all the stuff. The plant based stuff.

Clint – Which nuts do you eat? Because this was part of your bullet point number nine. So I’m going to change bullet point number nine. Let’s talk about nuts and higher protein foods like lentils and beans. Which of those have you found to be most beneficial. That’s the nuts, beans, legumes and things.

Liz – I eat a lot of almonds and pistachios, and I try to stay away from the the really salty ones, because those are the ones that I really, really like. And I just know I especially know this salt isn’t great for me at my age. So, uh, I try to eat the raw, raw nuts and, um, like, if I’m, if I’m going somewhere, if I’m going on a hike or whatever, I’ll take a bag of nuts with me and an apple or something like that. And that will do the trick. Your question was, um, how do I know which ones?

Clint – Yeah. Do you. What about lentils and beans? Is there a particular favourite lentil like yellow lentil or black lentils? Anything you like the most? And any beans or or legumes you like the most? Like black beans or navy beans for like, um, or pinto. You know what I mean?

Liz – I like black beans and chickpeas and I tend to go to those and put them in rice, put them in salads. I put them in, um, you know, grain in the morning breakfast cereal. I don’t think that breakfast has to be sweet. It it just doesn’t, but I like to have fruit in the morning, too. But, um. Uh, lentils, I like lentils they’re kind of peppery. I like that, um, let’s see, A tofu I eat. I eat a lot of tofu.

Clint – Okay.

Liz – That’s one that’s an okay one, isn’t it? Tofu?

Clint – Of course, I like to recommend the very plain, like their white blocks of tofu with no flavoring whatsoever. My wife Melissa, she puts those in the airfryer and they come out just absolutely amazing with some nutritional yeast on top. So cover them in nutritional yeast, put them in the airfryer. That’s fantastic. You could put them in the oven if you wanted to, or you could just cut them up these blocks and drop them onto a salad once people have graduated to this point inside the program, the reintroduction process.

Liz – That’s kind of what I do. I just eat it. I just eat the block, a hunk of the block.

Clint – Love it. So we’ve kind of covered number nine off because it was around having nuts and beans and more satiating more advanced foods in the diet. And so we’ve covered that off. So just to summarize what we’ve gone through here. Exercising daily with riding a bicycle, getting on the elliptical on, on alternate days, staying away from anything deep fried. Because what you’ve found is that no matter, even though you’re on a medication, if you eat off plan, which is deep fried especially, you’re going to get symptoms. And so there’s a limit to what the medication can do if you’re eating the wrong foods. And this is how I believe 98% of the population of RA community, and we’re talking 50 plus million people on Earth are living their life. They’re in this constant state of aggravating their condition and unknowingly, because the doctors are saying diet doesn’t matter. The foods available to them, especially cheap foods, processed foods like, you know, fast food chains, it’s all oil driven. And so everyone’s exacerbating their condition without knowing it. You’re not. Limit alcohol as common sense. Drink tons of water. We touched upon the bowel movements associated, just one benefit of doing so. You stretch a lot using yoga. You used to do a lot of hot yoga, and you feel that heat with stretching helps you a lot. Continue to stay connected with the education, the training, the community, be a part of a wellness and a positivity community. And stay away from these free Facebook groups where it’s a race to the bottom right. Avoid the triggers that we know. In your case, there’s a dairy, gluten, some free sugars and processed foods. No problem. We talked about how to migrate towards maybe being able to tolerate some sourdough bread and a little bit of a cheat here and there with some simple processed foods if in emergency. And then consume lots and lots of fruits and vegetables and salads and whole grains like buckwheat and quinoa and brown rice, and eat pistachios and beans and live on a plant based diet. This is your list, Liz. Is it nice to look at this and think, wow, like you’ve come a long way?

Liz – It’s been a remarkable change in a very short time and I really, really believe it’s the food because as I was telling you a little earlier before we went on, I am a tester of food. And I have found that there are some things I am basically plant based, but not completely. If I go to a restaurant, I will occasionally I will get salmon or chicken if it’s grilled, and if I just do it once and not several days in a row, I’m okay. But that’s me. I’m I’m okay. But I’m mostly plant based.

Clint – Yeah. Well done. Because things could look very different if you weren’t as good as you have been with all these lifestyle things. And so I expect that if you keep doing the great things, you’ll keep getting great results. And there the like so much more that you can add. You can add strengthening to those hands to reduce their susceptibility to symptoms returning. Working on upper body strength because at the moment most of that’s coming just from light resistance workout on the top of the elliptical. So I would say if I were you, I’d add a little bit more upper body resistance workouts. Um, but it’s looking great. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing. Liz, you’re a vibrant source of radiant energy and happiness. Thank you so much.

Liz – Thank you Clint. Thank you for everything. Thank you so much.