Jess, a returning guest on our podcast, shares her inspiring journey of overcoming rheumatoid arthritis and achieving a near pain-free life. In her conversation, she dives into the strategies and mindset shifts that enabled her remarkable recovery.

In this interview, we discuss:

• Jess’ incredible shift from a life with rheumatoid arthritis to coming off methotrexate completely
• Her knee recovery plan that transitioned her from knee braces to running again
• The structured daily exercises, including Bulgarian split squats and biking, that contributed to her knee inflammation reduction
• The critical role of a plant-based diet in supporting her overall health improvement
• Her experience and benefits from incorporating Bikram yoga once a week
• The gradual reintroduction of running through interval training that led to participation in 5K races
• The consistent commitment to exercise and persistence required over months to see significant results
• Jess’ overarching mantra for recovery: “Repetitions equal relief,” emphasizing the importance of movement
• The personal life achievements following her health journey, including getting engaged and buying a house
• Her future goals, including tapering off Xeljanz and starting a family!

Clint – Today we’re going to talk to Jess. She’s been on the podcast before, she’s got fabulous updates for us. She’s living a sensationally, almost pain free life with rheumatoid arthritis. She’s come off methotrexate completely since we last spoke, that’s been multiple months now since she’s been off that without repercussions. Her knees, which were very, very impacted by RA, are now giving her no trouble at all. And so today, what we just spoke about is what we’ll go through is we’ll talk about knee recovery plan. All right. Everything that Jess has done with her knees to become out of pain, and this is no small feat; this is an enormous achievement. So we’re going to go through and give that the due amount of time it needs so that you, too, can understand a pathway out of pain if you’ve got swollen knees. And we’ll also talk about how she’s been able to start running again, which is just mind blowing given where she was when she was in our coaching program, a little over six or maybe 12 months. It would be now, and so she’s going to go through all that with us. So, Jess, welcome back to the podcast, and so great to see you looking so healthy. How are you feeling?

Jess – Thank you for having me again. I’ve been feeling great, able to move around a lot more. Been able to challenge myself in many ways that I haven’t been able to in years, which we can talk about later you mentioned, like, my running and stuff that’s something we’ll dive into a little bit later. But yeah, just trying to stay active and maintaining an active lifestyle, which is pretty hard when you have severe rheumatoid arthritis. But it’s been going well.

Clint – Yes, it’s been going very well. And you’re very humble because as you unfold your story here for everyone they’re going to be pretty, pretty impressed with all that you’ve achieved. So let’s just do a quick summary for those people who’ve forgotten a lot of the detail from the last episode, which was some time ago when we first met you had inflammation. In fact, you can fill in the blanks, please.

Jess – Yeah. So when I first joined the program, um, I had a very swollen left knee with a history of a swollen right knee. I was taking Xeljanz and methotrexate at that same time. Um, with the assistance of the Paddison program, I’ve been able to reduce my methotrexate. I’m no longer taking that. And it’s been about 3 to 4 months since I’ve been off of it. And then my knee, my left knee. I’ve had no issues, um, since the program. Since leaving the program.

Clint – Yeah, which to a lot of people, as we were joking about before, like we’ve become acclimatized to this stuff, like you were in our community, you were listening to other people on the live calls and hearing stories. People are tapering medications, people are getting out of pain. But outside, in the real world or the more conventional world, this sounds like living on Mars to be able to completely get off methotrexate. How long were you on methotrexate prior?

Jess – I was on methotrexate for 12 years.

Clint – Right.

Jess – A huge accomplishment.

Clint – Right? Okay. So it’s a huge accomplishment. And then to get out of pain with knees, which can sometimes feel like their own inflammatory like loop, which can be really difficult to break requires immense precision. And so let’s talk about that. I think we covered the tapering process maybe on our last podcast or certainly what you were doing. So maybe we won’t spend as much time about that. But just a quick FYI to people, the way that this is recommended and Jess did is you make a very small taper only when you’ve got really great blood work two months in a row. Talk to the rheumatologist, then analyze the blood work again. Working with the rheumatologist and more good or excellent, I should say, CRP sed rate again, another small taper and so on. So that’s what we covered in another podcast with Jess. Jess, let’s talk all about the knees okay. So what were they like at their worst? Just how bad were the knees?

Jess – At their worst? I was wearing two knee braces at a time because I could hardly walk. And there was a lot of swelling around the top and under the kneecaps. And then I had a baker’s cyst behind my left knee.

Clint – Okay. Did you ever get cortisone shots into the knees?

Jess – No, I did not.

Clint – Okay. So we’re were about to talk about how to eliminate baker’s cysts. Big, fat, swollen knees without a cortisone shot.

Jess – So my workout regimen was pretty rigid when it came to the knees. I followed Clint’s program with the calf raises, the heel touches. I did those on a daily basis. Every morning, once I woke up and every night before I went to bed. Um, I was doing a lot of lunging, like the Bulgarian split squats daily, or at least every other day. Um, and the bike, those were the four exercises I was strongly pushing when my knees were really inflamed.

Clint – Okay, some really important points you touched on here. First of all, you were doing this in spite of very inflamed knees. Right. And then I want to reframe that and say you are doing this because of very inflamed knees. You have to do this, right?

Jess – Right. Yeah. That’s what led my inflammation to go down long term. Obviously, yes sticking to the plant based diet and the food regimen, that played a huge part. But I think a lot of it also came from the working out and the exercising and doing that on a consistent basis.

Clint – Were you ever concerned that the workouts would irritate the knees?

Jess – Um, I would maybe subconsciously, but upfront doing them. Um, I was just having a lot of faith and hope into the program that I didn’t really think about that. I was more worried, like, you know, I want to see the success. I want to see, you know, I want to reach my goals and be able to walk again. I want to see that progress. So no, to answer your question.

Clint – Which is which is a different to a lot of folks. So let’s just talk about exercising with swollen joints. So there’s a couple of things here, just so that people don’t run out and hurt themselves is, first of all, the exercises themselves need to be hand-picked, almost like a jeweler finds the absolute best jewel in the bunch. These are not just any exercise that your local like personal trainer is going to give you at the gym. Okay, let’s be as helpful as possible. So you were doing the toe raises, the heel kicks. Just explain to everyone what they look like the best you can.

Jess – Yeah. So I would hold for the toe raises or the heel raises. I would usually grab onto a wall or lean on a wall and just stand on my toes and go up and down about 20 times, and then I would lift my toes up about 20 times, still holding that wall to get that good stretch in.

Clint – And you would shift the weight back onto your heels for when you were about to lift the toes up. Yep. Okay. Excellent. Now you would, you were doing those. What else do you recall from the early parts of the physical therapy stuff? And then I will take us through to what you’re doing now.

Jess – The Bulgarian split squats.

Clint – The old Bulgarian.

Jess – That’s the one that sticks with me because I’m still doing those today.

Clint – Yeah. Amazing. When you first started doing these, what was your sort of attitude towards them? Were those things that you had previously done?

Jess – No, I hated those actually. Um, they’re one of the worst workouts, but they’re so rewarding that I’ve learned, so I just kind of suck it up and do it, like still to this day. Like I appreciate them, but and I’ll do them. But it’s still like a pain to get there and do them.

Clint – I love it. Yeah. So what I want people to understand is we don’t launch straight into these Bulgarian split squats. If people are listening and wanting to do these, then we want to, uh, not to get straight into them, but to warm up through some of the exercises and a few more that you just mentioned. And then get into these Bulgarian split squats, what they look like. And you can Google this, of course, is, uh, one leg forward, taking most of the body weight and then the other shin resting on a bench or a low chair behind. And then each day taking a little bit more weight into that front leg and using hands on as support, less and less, and then slowly building more depth and duration. Um, so it’s not reps, it’s an isometric hold and build strength and get out of there. So when you first started doing these, Jess, did you notice that the combination of the earlier exercises and then the Bulgarian split squat was helping? And when did the bike come in? Yeah, just fill in a lot of blanks for us.

Jess – Yeah. So yeah, from doing the I kind of just incorporated all of these into one. I work out just on my own. I’ve been working out for at least the past ten years. Um, so the gym is something that’s very familiar for me. So I felt comfortable integrating all of these at one time. Um, and then when I noticed, like, there was some slight inflammation, still, like it wasn’t fully responding to all these things and maybe the way I wanted to, that’s when I resorted to the bike to add a little extra emphasis on the inflammation. I remember during that time, too, I walked a lot, I definitely made that a priority as well. Just getting that movement and that blood flowing through my legs.

Clint – Mhm. Yeah. If there’s one overarching message that everyone should make, a daily mantra is repetitions equal relief. Whether it be knees, ankles, fingers, wrists, shoulders, or anything, movement, movement, movement. So RA should stand for really active. And the saying that if you don’t, use it, you lose it with RA. It should be. If you don’t use it a lot every single day, you lose it. So there is just so much requirement for movement. That’s what the joint needs for nurturing. So you’ve got your walking every day and then you had your biking as well, and then you were doing your movement with your exercises as well and building strength. How long did it take before you started to see some improvements?

Jess – Probably the earliest, I would say three months.

Clint – There we go. It’s not quick, is it?

Jess – No. It takes a lot of consistency.

Clint – Yeah. We’re going to let that sink in for a minute. So you were doing this combo for months before you started to see the improvements?

Jess – Yes.

Clint – Yeah. Great. All right. That’s key. Now, when you started to notice the improvements, was it to the swelling, the pain, the range of motion, or all of the above?

Jess – All the above? Um, it’s hard to really pinpoint and think. Which one came first. I felt like it all happened within a blink of an eye.

Clint – Now those baker’s cysts. How much were you able to get the fluid out? And how were you able to measure how much sort of swelling was there? Was it through range of motion? Um, like heel to bum stretches or what was it?

Jess – So the baker’s cyst was the last thing to go away. Um, the inflammation in my knee was completely gone, but the baker’s cyst was really bothering me, and it was there for probably 4 to 5 additional months until I finally was able to get that to go away completely. Um, and I was able to get that to go away through once again, I think it was just the repetition because I wasn’t doing anything different targeted for that. I was just sticking to the plan.

Clint – And do you feel that with the baker’s cyst and the persistence of the baker’s cyst, that it was the physical therapy that eventually won the arm wrestle against that?

Jess – I believe so. Yeah.

Clint – I agree, I completely agree because you were six, 12 months into all the eating plan, like you had mastered that a long time ago. You were really, really long term on those that medication like combination. And the only thing that was the main lever that was being used was the, was the PT. Okay. This is why I love this conversation. Like this should be so like played back over and over again to folks, if you’re listening to this on a treadmill or on your way to work or on a bus or whatever you’re doing, chopping veggies with this in the background, pay attention to the duration, the persistence and the approach. So we’ve got lots of reps, biking, walking and then the strength building, and then we’ve got the persistence and the commitment to the time of time that it takes. And Jess, you kept adding more and more resistance I remember this. So your strength training, you didn’t stop when you felt like you’d built the habit. You continued to strive for more and more strength. Can you tell us about that?

Jess – Yeah, I wanted to be, I still do, I still want to be extremely fit. That’s one of my goals. You know, I would you know, I started off using just body weights for a lot of these exercises for my knee. And I’m working my way up to now 30lbs or heavier, you know, sometimes doing Bulgarian split squats. Um, so that’s the way I’ve been pushing myself through the resistance and weight training. Um, just adding more weight every time I could accomplish, you know, ten reps. And I was feeling good and was able to maintain that with no irritation, I continued to move forward.

Clint – The more the better, as long as we’re not getting a setback the next day.

Jess – Right? Absolutely. Um, and I think one thing I forgot to mention to you that completely slipped my mind. Bikram yoga has been a lifesaver as well. For help, for building that resistance. Um, I’ve been doing that once a week, um, since I joined the program two years ago, maybe last March. It’s been some time, but, um. Yeah, since I started the program, I’ve also been doing that as well.

Clint – What a combination. Yeah, I don’t talk about it as much Bikram. The accessibility of a class these days has become really tough after that Netflix documentary came out. Um, but, um, how often do you go? What benefits do you experience? Do you do it in a class or at home? Um, and then I’ll have more questions after that.

Jess – Yeah. Um, so I go once a week and then I am in a class, and I’m seeing a lot of the benefits just in, just in my flexibility and mobility. Um. Yeah.

Clint – And does the knee benefit from that a lot too, or is it primarily helpful for other joints?

Jess – It’s helpful for the whole body. The sweat and the heat really helped the whole body.

Clint – And, uh, do you do that on a weekend so that because it takes a lot of time, doesn’t it?

Jess – Yeah, I do. I don’t work on Fridays, and Fridays are typically when I do it. Um, I go in the morning and then sometimes following that, I’ll make sure I get my walks in for the rest of the day. I won’t go and do an extra workout.

Clint – Yeah, I remember trying to do that too. I would one time, not one time. A few times I went to Bikram and then just felt so desperate for anything else I could do. Like a maniac on a mission, then went to the gym afterwards. My gym workout was just atrocious. I was just so tired. Just too much, isn’t it?

Jess – It’s very draining, but it’s so rewarding.

Clint – Yep. The combination that you’ve got is incredible for the lower body. You’ve got the amazing routine building more and more strength. You’re now loading 30lbs onto your Bulgarian splits. Not recommended for beginners, believe me. Like I still don’t load Bulgarian split squats. You are doing things that are really, really amazing and at a very high level. And then you’re doing your Bikram once a week, which I also feel I think would be something I’d like to add back into my routine as well. Once a week. Bikram. Reset everything. Smash yourself to the ground with like, the most intense cardio you could imagine. Sweat everything out. What a great thing to do every week.

Jess – Yes. Yeah, it’s been very rewarding. And I guess going into what I mentioned earlier, I think a lot of what I’ve been able to do is really helped me get back to my old self. Being as if I got back into running again recently, um, I used to be a runner. Um, but now that my knees are stable and feeling healthy, I’m actually able to run again, which I didn’t think was possible for me.

Clint – When you started running again, did you just do a sample size of maybe like a hundred yards or something and then check in with your body? How did you ensure that you didn’t do too much too soon?

Jess – So I started with interval running. I would go to the gym so I would go on the treadmill, walk for two minutes, run a minute, walk for two minutes. And I did that maybe until it was like a mile for me. And then I stopped, and then I gave it a break for two days to see how I felt. And then I would slowly break that up to I would go back to that running, you know, maybe add an adding an extra minute building onto that until I worked my way up to at least running a mile at a slow pace. But I would take breaks and listen to my body if, like, I just didn’t have the endurance.

Clint – How’s the endurance now compared to when you first started that?

Jess – A lot better. I’ve been participating in five K’s now. Um, I’ve been able to run three miles consistently. Um, no walking. Um, so I would say it’s I made immense progress on that.

Clint – Yeah. That’s phenomenal. You’ve also maintained plant based diet the entire time. I think your tolerance to foods has now become unlimited, right? With plants. So you’re able to eat what? Nuts, seeds? Tofu, avocado. You’re eating, you know, pasta. Everything right?

Jess – Yep. I actually just made some tofu right before I hopped on with you.

Clint – Sensational. And just to give people that feeling of it gets awesome the longer you do this. When you first started, you were doing very basic foods, weren’t you?

Jess – Yes, and it was hard. I was just sticking to mainly the zucchini, squash and rice and then the greens.

Clint – And here we are.

Jess – Right here I am. I have a lot of diversity. Um, I love I can eat pretty much any fruit. I really don’t have any setbacks from that as well. Um, I emphasize green smoothies. I drink those once a day, and I think those have also helped me a lot.

Clint – Awesome. When you get out of bed in the morning. Any pain anywhere that you’re still trying to work on, or is there any residual problems that you’re still sort of like chipping away at?

Jess – Are you referring to just my knees or just in general.

Clint – Anything in case I can be helpful with some tips or things? Or are things great?

Jess – I mean, everything’s good for the most part. I would just say there’s some slight irritation in my wrist. Um, but I’ve been working, doing back back exercises, working to, you know, do a pull up again. Um, I, you know, your program, the exercises on there, I still follow that. Um, so that’s my next goal is really working on those smaller joints.

Clint – Okay. So when you do another when I didn’t know you’d done a pull up, maybe. I don’t think I knew that.

Jess – No. I’m working towards a pull up. I still have not been able to do them. I do assistant pull or assisted pull ups.

Clint – Okay. Yeah. We have a member at the moment called Kimberly, who’s in her early 60s, who just did her first pull up, and I posted it on our Instagram channel and it’s had 106,000 views the last time I checked a few days ago. So, um, like this is I love everyone striving towards a pull up. It’s just shatters the stigma of having rheumatoid arthritis. And so that’s going to feel amazing. Jess, when you can do that and you can do that, you can do that.

Jess – Yeah. And go Kimberly too. Because good for her.

Clint – Isn’t that awesome?

Jess – That’s awesome. I’m jealous, but good for her.

Clint – You’ve been working so hard on your lower body for reasons that you’ve explained. We don’t want to let swollen knees remain swollen. The future doesn’t look good. So well done. And now, with that relief that you’ve achieved, you can now focus on the upper body more. And I know you haven’t ignored the upper body, but you can allocate more focus towards it. You’ve also in a personal life you’ve also gotten engaged. So I want to say congratulations. Um, uh, that’s this. You know, when we when our health improves, everything improves because you become lighter. You look at the future differently. You feel there’s more space in life to be able to take on, you know, the next adventure in other aspects that aren’t trying to get out of pain. So that must have been extremely exciting and beautiful for you to get engaged.

Jess – Yeah. Thank you. Um, you know, this relationship brings me a lot of hope and, you know, and so did your program as well. Um, I didn’t think I could have these things in my future, but now that they’re coming, you know, I want to strive and continue to be the best version of myself in my future.

Clint – That is amazing, Jess. You deserve it. So knowing through all the conversations we had when we were seeing each other regularly on the live calls and stuff. You just work so hard at this. Another message to sort everyone, to sort of digest here, Jess, has dedicated herself to getting out of pain here. This is not your average. Oh, let’s give this a try. No no no no, this is I’m doing this and I’m going to crush it. And there are a lot of setbacks. I remember there was a few times you came on and we’d had a big setback a couple of times, and you got back on the horse and you continued to apply the discipline, the habits. So you’ve earned this. And this is the most beautiful thing of all is when you have this disease. But you go all in and you get the results like you have. You feel I can do anything in my life, I can do it. And that self-esteem that comes with that, and that confidence sets you up for the rest of your life.

Jess – It’s very empowering. Very.

Clint – So congratulations. And what’s next for you?

Jess – Well, so next we just bought a house. So we’ll be moving into that at the end of the year. And then in Sept or at the beginning of the summer, and then we will be getting married in September. Um, and then fingers crossed, I can be off of Xeljanz in the next year and then who knows, the following year, maybe a baby. That’s the goal. So.

Clint – It’s a beautiful goal, and I hope this all plays out exactly the way that you just described. You know, being able to start a family is, uh, is just the immense ultimate gift. So, you know, all the efforts you’re putting in with your health are if they’re driven partially by that overlap with what drove me, you know, we need the most extraordinarily attractive, desirable outcome that we’re working towards because it’ll get us out of bed and do the workouts more than just thinking, oh, I want to get out of pain. That’s not a goal we need.

Jess – I completely agree with that. You don’t just live, you can’t pause your life to complete this program. You have to continue to make goals for yourself in order to be healthy as well, and to succeed in the program.

Clint – Words of wisdom. Thank you Jess. Let’s leave it there. I really appreciate your time again, and it’s always a pleasure to see your happy, smiling face. And I look forward to a future podcast with the next Jess accomplishment.

Jess – Project two is coming off Xeljanz.

Clint – Godspeed.

Jess – Thank you for having me.

Clint – Thanks, Jess.