Carolien has made remarkable strides in managing her rheumatoid arthritis through lifestyle changes. Here, she shares her transformative journey from a life of severe pain to experiencing minimal symptoms and a high quality of life.

We discuss in this interview:

• How Carolien was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2016, initially experiencing mild symptoms that progressively worsened.
• She eventually found herself in significant pain, unable to perform simple tasks without discomfort.
• Despite a rheumatologist’s recommendation to maintain lifelong medication, Carolien chose a different path due to severe side effects from her prescriptions.
• Seeking alternatives, Carolien discovered and eventually committed fully to the Paddison Program, emphasizing a whole food plant-based diet.
• Her dedication led to a complete lifestyle overhaul, resulting in being pain-free for over five years without the need for arthritis medications.
• Carolien’s daily routine, focusing on nutrient-rich foods, regular exercise, and maintaining a positive mental outlook.
• Her regimen includes a significant consumption of fresh fruits, vegetables, and legumes while maintaining gluten-free and processed-food-free practices.
• The importance of support networks, particularly finding motivation and guidance within an online community.
• The mindset shift necessary to see natural, healthy eating as the norm rather than an exception.
• As a certified nutritionist, Carolien is now passionate about helping others in the Netherlands find relief from RA through diet and lifestyle changes

Clint – Welcome back to the podcast today. I’m talking to Carolien. She’s in the Netherlands. She’s had rheumatoid arthritis for ten years. And in the early years things were very, very rough. But now, especially over the last few years, she’s been living an absolute high quality of life. Minimum symptoms, she doesn’t take rheumatoid arthritis Medications, doesn’t need to because of symptom control. Doing things entirely lifestyle based. And so today, Carolien and I are going to go through what it is that she’s doing to be able to live such a high quality life, be able to socialize, eat at restaurants here and there, and just be able to really get to the place that everyone’s after with RA, which is living with complete confidence and control over your condition. So Carolien, wonderful to see you.

Carolien – Great to see you. Thanks for having me.

Clint – Yes, we were just chatting prior about the last time we saw each other. Several years ago, you had a, organized a Q&A for me for some people in your community there in the Netherlands, and I jumped on we spent probably an hour and a half together, and I was able to answer a whole bunch of questions to your lovely group. So we might talk about a little about what you do for the community in the Netherlands in due course. But let’s talk all about you to begin with. Set the scene for us with the transformation. You’ve had the worst days, followed by how you are now.

Carolien – Yeah. Okay. So I was diagnosed with RA in 2016, exactly ten years ago, also in the month of May. But that’s that we are in now. It started actually pretty mild, so I wasn’t very worried in the beginning, but of course it progressed, so eventually I had, I had RA in my hands, in my wrists, in my feet. I would also have shoulder tendonitis, which is really painful. It makes it really difficult to sleep. My fingers were swollen, I couldn’t hold a pen properly. I had very bad handwriting because of that. My feet would hurt, It would hurt with every step I would take. It would be difficult to do daily things like grocery shopping, you know, lifting things, doing the dishes, everything was difficult. For example, I couldn’t hold a cup of tea normally, normally you hold it, you hold the handle with your index finger, right? Uh, it was too swollen for that. So I started holding it with my middle finger like this. And I did it for about two years, I think. And suddenly I felt, I think my index finger is normal again. I can hold my cup normal again. I really had to get used to going back to normal. So yeah, the symptoms were progressing. I also had, trigger fingers, uh, which is, uh, you get a nodule on your tendons in the hands and they block the fingers.

Carolien – You can’t straighten your fingers properly. And that’s also super painful. So that was one of the most painful things for me. Shoulder tendonitis and trigger fingers. Everything with tendons. So also, one thing I really remember is, I couldn’t open my front door at some point, and I had to ask a stranger in the street to please help me open my front door. This was really, yeah, really a low point for me. That’s how difficult it was. Maybe not the worst RA symptoms you’ve ever heard, but it was progressing, and it was making my life difficult. So now I have I pain free, ready for five years. I have no stiffness. Nothing. I’m not on medications, like you said. I have a lot of energy. I can do anything I want. I can do everything I did before I had RA. Um, so it’s wonderful. I have just minor symptoms now and then. I have sometimes a little bit of sweating. But it just reminds me that, okay, I have already, I have to keep working on it. And it’s never painful. It’s, uh, maybe my shoulder two days a year. But it’s not like, uh, like before. So, yeah, I’m very happy. I feel very healthy. And that’s the, that’s how it’s now.

Clint – I’m just going to play a role of kind of critic. Okay. Because when we post this sort of content online, there’s always a portion of the RA community who jump on and start throwing skeptical comments on things like, oh, you must have had only a mild version of this condition. I just want you to speak to that because that’s not what your rheumatologist told you, is it?

Carolien – No. That’s right, that’s right. Uh, she told me I have an aggressive form of RA and I need medications for the rest of my life. She said this because I always told her I think I have a mild form. It’s not that bad, but she said, no, you have an aggressive form. It’s also because I do have some bone damage shown on X-rays. There is some damage in my wrist and my foot, which happens in the early stages when I had more inflammation. So she says even when I have mild inflammation, I get bone damage. There is a risk. So I realized that, currently it’s not a problem for me, but I know I have to stay on top of it to prevent progression of the bone damage. But, you know, I think if I have no inflammation or almost zero, I feel good, I take the risk of, yeah, I just accept the risk because I did start medication. I started MTX, but the side effects were so bad for me they were much worse than my than my condition. so I quit it. I couldn’t live with those side effects. I tried different medications also Plaquenil. It also didn’t work. I also tried a Jak inhibitor, which is a much more modern medicine. It went okay for about 2 or 3 months. And then I also got side effects. And besides, it didn’t do anything. And also, it had a warning sticker on it. It said, uh, it causes cancer. It actually has a warning. It causes cancer, and at first I thought, well, I’m eating so healthy now that maybe, maybe I can take this risk, but it didn’t feel good. You know, I’m eating so healthy at this point. I was already eating healthy. I don’t want to take the medicine each day that can cause cancer. It really didn’t feel good. So yeah, in the end, I’m not using anything.

Clint – The side effects from the methotrexate just briefly, what were they?

Carolien – Yeah. I tried to remember this morning at least it was I was super tired. So I had no energy at least for half a week. You know, you take them once a week. Um, yeah, there were more side effects. But also, what I remember most, it had a mental effect on me. I got aggressive, yeah. You can get, how you say it, you know, mental moods, mood swings, and that was so weird to me because I’m normally not, but from little things, I could get really very angry. Suddenly, I couldn’t feel it coming myself. And this is a known side effect, so I didn’t want that. Actually, my father-in-law also had a pretty bad. And he would also have these kind of moods always, so I always thought he. That’s just a bad character. But his wife said, no, it’s because of the medications. And I never believed it that that’s not possible. And now I have experienced it myself. That’s pretty weird. I had the same with the Plaquenil. With the Plaquenil.

Clint – That was my next question. Yeah, yeah.

Carolien – Yeah, yeah. I felt something like I was going crazy or something. And I have read that in a few instances people can get psychotic from Plaquenil. I was afraid that I was going there myself, so I quit with the Jak inhibitor. It was not that extreme, but I got rashes on my face and yeah, I don’t know. Uh, things like that. Infections, hair loss. Hair loss. so. Yeah. And then the cancer warning did it for me. And it was also not working. So yeah, that’s why I was afraid to try something else.

Clint – Yeah. People will be wondering which one. Of course with those Jak inhibitors you’ve got the Xeljanz the illuminant and then the rinvoq. I remember you were on illuminant, weren’t you?

Carolien – Oh that’s right I yeah yeah.

Clint – Yeah, I remember, I remember. So let’s talk about um, you know, recovery out of those bad days. Sometimes on this podcast, I have actually literally forgotten to have my guests detail exactly like how they got well, and we talk for a long time about the problems they’ve had and so forth, and people in the comments on YouTube literally say like, so what exactly did she do? So what program are you following? How did it come about? How quickly did it work? Obviously, I know the answers to this, but just fill in our audience because some people are new to the channel. Sure.

Carolien – So I started searching on the internet immediately after my diagnosis. And I found your program almost immediately. So that was good. I bought the program, you know, it was a do it yourself program back then, but I didn’t start immediately because my symptoms were in the beginning, very mild. And it’s a big step to change everything. But I made little changes step by step. So I quit. I quit processed foods, dairy, then, uh, things would improve. Then they would get worse again. I would take another step. I would get gluten free. This would go on for like three years, actually. And then I was falling back again and, uh, symptoms were increasing again. And then I thought, now it’s enough. I’m going to do the Paddison Program, the elimination diets all from the beginning and stick to it. So that was in 2019. Then after six weeks, I still made a big mistake. I went to a restaurant, and I don’t know why I ordered a salmon wrap with a lot of sauce. Now I just wouldn’t eat it if I saw that. I felt maybe I, I have to eat it because I ordered it, I don’t know, so I ordered, I ate it and it was terrible. It gave me a terrible wrist problem which started then, so and then I thought, I need to join your forum, your support forum, because I need more support to stick with it, and then I did. And since then, it’s all, it’s all I’m, I’m very motivated to do it completely. Right? Yeah. Because it’s very motivating to hear the stories of others. Yeah, to help each other. that’s what worked for me. So yeah. Yeah.

Clint – Yeah. Lovely. So let’s get specific then. Okay. So what does, what were the changes that you’ve made? And what do you feel? just intuitively has made the biggest difference. And of course, we know it’s a combination of everything, but I’m going to just not even give you any sort of suggestions. What do you what were the changes? What do you think’s been super helpful?

Carolien – Yeah, for me, it’s just the foods, the whole food plant-based diet. That’s absolutely the number one for me. So and that’s involves everything. So I have a lot of vegetables, raw vegetables, also, a lot of greens, i make a lot of smoothies each day. So it’s all a lot of a lot of fruits. Also grains. I also eat legumes. So the diet is super important. And of course I don’t eat anything outside of the plant. Like I don’t, you know, when there’s a birthday, I don’t have birthday cake. People say to you, oh, you can have it once. You have to live a little. Yes, I can have it once, but not all the time. Once on my own birthday, I can have some apple cake. And then next year again, you know, so now you have to be you have to be straight. You have to commit yourself to eating like this. And in the beginning, it’s hard. It’s hard to be different from the people around you. It’s hard to change your food to leave a birthday cake. But after it’s after a while, it’s you, it’s not, it’s not hard anymore. For example, this birthday cake. I don’t see it as food anymore. You know, it’s like poison for my body. I don’t want it. There’s not, uh, I not one second I would, I would have that. So yeah, it’s also a mind shift, right? You have to really, really want to get well and do everything you can for it. So that’s also super important. Um, it’s also, I’m, I’ve, I’m looking differently at, uh, at how I eat now it’s, at first you think, oh, I’m different than everyone else.

Carolien – Uh, but now I think, uh, I am the one that’s eating the normal diet, the healthy diet, the most natural diet. Everyone around me is eating differently. You know, it’s a, I look at it like that now, I am the normal person. They want to eat crappy food. These mindset shifts, they help. And, uh, yeah, I found the determination in myself. I didn’t know I had it, but I wanted to get rid of the pain no matter what. I wanted to do everything I could. So the food is super important, but, uh, I’ve also started to exercise. Of course, uh, I’m not a very sportive person by nature, but, uh, I’m trying, uh, so I’m jogging. I can jog again. My feet are fine again. Uh, I have an exercise bike at home. I’m doing some weight lifting. I could do more. I want to do more, because I want to stay stronger. You know, I’m 52 now, so I need to work on my muscles. And what else? I have a hanging bar, a bar to hang from, from my hands at home, which was your recommendation as well. So I’m hanging each day. 30s just trying to, Yeah, to do it longer, you know? But, that’s where I’m at now, so yeah, the exercise is there as well. The mindset is there. I tried to work around stress, you know, that’s maybe also something I can always improve on stressful situations. Um, that’s it.

Clint – That’s lovely.

Carolien – I’m still learning from you. For example, last year, I started the mouth protocol that you’re teaching, for oral health, and it really helped my teeth. Yeah, it helped a lot because I had some pains in my teeth. They’re gone. I also don’t need cleanings anymore at the dentist, which I always needed for 50 years. So it’s a miracle. first of all, uh, and then there is a relationship with RA, you know, with the oral health and RA. But, yeah, so, so that’s why, that’s why it’s good. I’ve also, of course, I’m using the omega three supplements. I always use the different brands, but since last December, I’m using this in Xeno, finally, which is the best brand, apparently. yeah. And I do, I do feel it’s doing me good. So I’m, I’m sticking with that. Um, I’ve also started to drink a lot of water, three liters per day.

Clint – Wow. That’s a lot. Yeah. Good.

Carolien – That’s a lot. So I have the first bottle here. You have to start early in the morning. Otherwise, you have to get up the whole night to go to the bathroom. So I’m always looking for things to improve. I’m just very passionate about the relation between food and health, lifestyle and health. It really interests me, you know, when I’m making my salads, for example, I just really feel that these are all start to help me, uh, products they’re going to, yeah, make me feel good. I love my food now, you know, I’m, I’m eating mainly smoothies and salads and soups and things like this, but I really love it. The salads I make, I add sweet potato to it because, you know, it has to be filling. I can’t lose weight, of course. So I make a huge salads at night. I put tomato in it and onion and sweet potato, and also like chick peas or other legumes or tofu, and um herbs, things like this. Maybe some grapes or raisins, and I just love it. I can eat it each day. Today. Yeah. I also make soup and Yeah, I don’t know, uh, uh, maybe some. And only now and then I have some breads, maybe with avocado, but. But I don’t eat bread a lot.

Carolien – Maybe once a month. So I’m mainly gluten-free. Yeah. For breakfast, maybe. It’s, uh, interesting to know what I’m having. I make a huge smoothie, and it has buckwheat in it. Buckwheat is a grain that is super healthy. You know, you recommend it as well. It’s gluten free. It has a lot of minerals. You need to soak it the whole night. So in the evening, I put it in water like 50g. I think, you put it in water the next morning, you drain it and you put it in your smoothie with bananas, blueberries, maybe other fruits, and then a lot of greens and also cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, broccoli, things like that. You can have parsley, other herbs, etc. So I, I, and then I have two large glasses. So let’s say 0.7l. I think it’s my breakfast. And then for lunch, I could have the same smoothie again. Or I have oats with a smaller smoothie or a salad, like I just said. So that’s, that’s my, my food. And then for snacks, I have something like dates or dried fruits or nuts, uh, maybe a corn cracker with some avocado on it or, uh, just bananas. I eat a lot of bananas, actually, like maybe even eight per day.

Carolien – That’s really a lot.

Clint – That’s interesting, but excellent. So I want everyone to pick up on all the clues. Notice I’m sort of letting you talk here and letting you just stream all of this absolute wonderful information that you’re sharing here, because this is what people want to hear is what does someone with rheumatoid arthritis do to stay out of pain and to stay off the drugs? You are telling everyone what you do. Now, I’ve got some, uh, curiosity around some of the things you’re sharing, and we’ll get into that in a minute about these foods, but this is just so, so valuable. Okay, so any other final sort of things you wanted to get out before I then just ask some clarifying questions?

Carolien – Yeah, I just want to also say that you don’t need to do it like me, like have smoothies and salads all the time. You can have curries or make the meals that you want to eat, right? Just have a lot of vegetables and, maybe it doesn’t sound attractive to some people, but, yeah, for me, it’s also very easy and simple. You know, you never have to think about what I’m going to have? Uh, I’m having these salads, and you can mix up the ingredients all the time. You know, you need variation, of course, but the basis is so simple. I never have to think about it. It’s also not a lot of work to make it. I think it’s just a routine.

Clint – That’s right.

Clint – Yeah. So the only downside of doing smoothies, there’s a couple, um, one is that you’ve got to be careful because it’s really, really likely to cause weight loss as you’ve already highlighted. So if we overdo the smoothies, we lose weight. I never want people to do that. If weight becomes a problem because we value muscle development as much as any other currency in, with, with this, with this process. So we don’t want to lose muscle mass. Because the joints need that muscle development to support them. Um, but it sounds like you’ve found the right balance. You’re balancing convenience with ease of preparation, super clean eating, and super good for gut health. But you don’t do it so much that your weight suffers. You’ve found a balance after doing this for many years. Okay, so that’s one downside of the smoothies, another downside. So, but you’ve already worked your way around that. Another one is that if we put things other than just fruits and greens in there, specifically, if we put a lot of fat into our smoothie, we can end up on the toilet a lot, have a lot of digestive issues because if you imagine you’re out in nature before blenders and before the ability to process foods like that, you would never consume this extraordinary amount of high fat foods mixed or blended like liquified in with with fruits and greens. It’s just extremely unnatural. So, however, you could imagine that someone might take a banana, grab some leafy greens, get like a one of those old-fashioned, like, is it a, is it a mortar and a pestle or whatever it’s called.

Clint – Grind them all together. Within a few seconds, you can mash banana in your hand. It can, you know, become very soft, like a smoothie-like texture. And likewise, you can ndo the same with masticating greens easily in your mouth as well. And so what I’m saying is fruits and greens are compatible in the bowel, sorry, incompatible in the stomach. When we start blending chia and flax in there, I just hear too often people end up on the toilet, digestive issues, uh, etc., so something for people to be mindful of. And then other than that, if we are. This is. A third issue with smoothies is that if we are to exclusively smoothie based and we’re not having bathroom runs and digestive issues and we’re not losing weight, the thing is, we can become too narrow with our eating diversity. So we can end up excluding foods that are just as important for the bowel, which are your legumes, your nuts, your seeds, all the different sorts of starchy root vegetables, all different types of, you know, cruciferous as well, different types of fruits. If we’re using just blackberries and bananas all the time. So we run the risk of becoming a little too narrow on our food range. So other than that, they’re great. Other than that, great for inflammation reduction. So, just putting this in context.

Carolien – I that’s absolutely right. I do eat all those things you mentioned. And you can even add some chickpeas in your smoothie, you know, to make it richer.

Clint – Yeah, they’re low in fat. Yeah.

Carolien – You can also add cooked sweet potato in your smoothie to make it, you know.

Clint – Low in fat again. Yeah

Carolien – Things like this. Yeah. But you’re right. And I’m eating a lot of bananas also to keep my weight. But you need to think about variation in fruits and vegetables. Yeah, absolutely.

Carolien – Yeah.

Clint – You’ve got it nailed. I’m not speaking directly at you. I’m just casting a wider commentary for the greater audience who are listening to the podcast. People can get attracted by lots of smoothie consumption in the early stages. And the main benefit in the early stages is weight loss. Nothing is as anti-inflammatory as calorie deficiency. It’s very difficult to meet your calorie requirements when you’re just doing green smoothies, and so people reach for flax and chia, and then they get into all sorts of problems. So, great work with that. Now I want to talk about bananas. I did an episode years ago with the guys from High Carb Health. And if anyone wants to go and listen to 45 minutes of nothing but how incredible bananas are for the bowel, then I invite you to go and look at the high-carb health podcast that I did with the boys, Cherise. And, uh, now, um, eating all those bananas provides you with so much wonderful resistant starch that is just going to make those bacteria sing in the colon. So that is awesome. Anyone who can tolerate bananas go monkeys go apes on bananas, just like Carolien is doing. Wonderful. I want to ask you, okay, first of all, just to clarify before we move off the foods. So if you want to, you can happily eat, you know, beans and rice or a potato curry, or you can do all those things, right?

Carolien – Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Clint – Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Carolien – And I eat that as well, but currently it’s mainly the salads, uh, that I’m having, because it’s so easy, but maybe when it’s winter time, and it’s colder, I’d rather make, uh, something like curries or rice noodles. I also like that very much. There’s a lot of things you can make. You can have gluten-free pasta dishes, Mexican dishes with rice. it’s, it’s all delicious.

Carolien – Yeah.

Clint – Love it. Okay, let me wind back to something you said probably ten or so minutes ago. You said I just wanted to get out of pain so bad. Now, in the past 12 months or so, I would have spoken to close to a thousand people on discovery calls. People who want to work with us, they jump on a session with me. I build a plan for them, and I assess them for suitability to work with them and see if they kind of are the right fit for what we do. Now, what I noticed then, when we work with folks after those calls, is the people who do the best are those that have the most compelling future. So it’s not whether or not they’re male or female or young or we’ve got folks who are one gentlemen we work with. He’s 90 years old. You may have seen him in the group. So it’s not about any of those things. It’s how bad people want to get well. And I find this so fascinating. So I want to ask you, what has driven you so much over these years to get well? Talk to us about this.

Carolien – Yeah, that is an interesting question. I have been thinking about it myself because you have said that just wanting to get out of pain is normally not enough. You need a bigger why? But I’ve been thinking, what was my why? I really think it was getting out of pain and avoiding these medications. I think it was just that I absolutely did not want to live this life. I, I felt my symptoms were progressing. I felt I would be depressed in the future for sure because of this disease and because of the medications that I might take or not take. They were making me feel so bad. So I think this was for me, just the reason I absolutely didn’t want this disease. And yeah, I found the motivation in myself. I didn’t know I had it in me. Also, I have a scientific background. I’m a chemist, and it makes it easy for me to read scientific literature. So I went searching on the internet. I can read scientific articles and understand it. so it made more sense to me, and I saw other people do it. I saw the science, said, it can be done, then I can do it too. It was something like this. I was always reading about it. My husband said, you have an obsession. He said, like, what are you reading now? It was again about food and rheumatoid arthritis. Oh, you are obsessed. Maybe, I don’t know, but I felt more like a passion. It’s coming. Becoming my new passion. I just need to get well. And in the beginning, he said to me, oh, just take the medications and, uh, you know, that’s it. But no, I absolutely want to do it this way. So yeah, I had to get well, that’s, that was the reason I did it. Yeah. You have to make your, your health your number one priority. You have to make yourself your priority. Yeah.

Clint – And you know something else?

Carolien – If you’re healthy, you will be happier. You know, that’s what it is. What it is. When you’re in pain each day, you’re just not as happy as you could be. Yeah.

Clint – It’s very true.

Clint – And I think there’s an aspect of what you just shared that I haven’t properly, kind of acknowledged, in ascertaining the character traits of those that are most successful. And one more that I would like us to talk about is the total belief that it’s possible. Okay, so you and I share both a science background. I have a first-class honours degree and like almost the equivalent of university medal level stuff coming out of my laser physics background. Okay. And then I went on and did stuff in that field, which was, if I put humility aside for a moment, we’re really cool at a young age in the fiber optic world, and published a paper at a young age and all this sort of stuff. So you and I share that. Okay. Now, what we also then share is the ability to, um, self-reassure through the published literature of what the science tells us very clearly. And it tells us that if we eat more plants, we develop more short-chain fatty acids. If we develop more short-chain fatty acids, we can feel the gut lining in the way that it most needs to be fueled so it can self-repair.

Clint – And then, in the absence of inflammatory foods, the gut lining can then slowly repair itself. And we know again from the science that this correlates with less rheumatoid arthritis activity. And then we can go beyond that. And we can look at other ways that a lifestyle driven that affect gut health and intestinal permeability. And like you have implemented with your physical therapy and your stress reduction, your omega-6-3 ratio work, your oral microbiome, of course, affecting a different barrier in the body, which is the mouth to blood barrier. And you put all this together, you and I both know, and I absolutely for me, it’s like one plus one equals two. Know that you put all this together, you’re going to improve. There’s no exception. No person without RA cannot improve. And it takes that level of certainty, I think, to then get up each morning, have the 50th day in a row where symptoms feel like they’re unchanged, but continue on the mission knowing that something’s going to shift soon because I’m doing everything right. How much does that kind of resonate with you?

Carolien – Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s just knowing and believing that it will work. It does work. Science has shown it. I see people in Europe, on your in your group that did your program, they become better. So I can do it too. I want it. I’m gonna do it. Yeah. Even if it’s not, it’s not easy. You know, to change everything and to stick to it, but it’s so rewarding. I felt improvement pretty quickly, like in a few weeks, you know, and then a little bit, a little bit more. You fall a little bit backwards, you rise up again. So it’s just very rewarding. Uh, and then you keep going. It’s very motivating if you feel yourself improving.

Carolien – Yeah.

Clint – So motivating, so motivating. Uh, I remember, and I like the word euphoria. It’s, it’s euphoric when you notice your pain going down because it feels like the greatest problem in life by far. Like, let’s say you’ve got 50 problems in your life. If you were to write them down on a piece of paper, the one at the top, which is 50 times bigger than the other 49, is having rheumatoid arthritis. So when that one starts to improve. And within weeks. Boy, you hold. You can’t hold back the joy that’s addictive. Yeah, it’s very addictive. And then you lay on top of that. You’re looking at the publications. You see what it says. It’s very clear. You’re noticing it in your own body, and you’re seeing evidence of other people doing it. Boom. Carolien’s on a mission. There’s no one’s going to get out of here. Get in your way. I love it.

Carolien – Absolutely.

Clint – You’re hanging from the bar. Let’s talk about the bar hanging and what you’re doing with this. Has this helped your hands and your wrists? Shoulders like. Talk me through the benefits of doing that.

Carolien – Yeah. Yeah. I just want to get stronger hands, you know? That’s why I’m doing it is helping. I’ve only started it 1 or 2 years ago, I think, started doing it in playgrounds, when no one is watching. I quickly hang there. Or later. I don’t care if someone is watching. Now I then I got one at home, but it wasn’t perfect because it was too big for my hands. So I got another one. And this one is perfect. Yeah, I’m hanging from its, started like 10s and now it’s. Yeah, I can’t pull myself up. That’s impossible. But, uh, yeah, just hanging from it. It makes me stronger. And, yeah, that’s one of the things I, I do.

Clint – It’s brilliant. Brilliant. Okay. Well, I think that this has been a nice information packed conversation. And I think that your ability to learn, process, implement, and maintain is as good as anyone that I’ve seen, and I love that you’ve also been able to encourage others inside our platform and encourage the community there in the Netherlands. And I would like to have you mention what your Instagram handle is and how people might be able to reach out to you, because especially Dutch speakers in the Netherlands who may want to communicate in their own language, uh, you are such a source of support and, um, and help. Um, and you even mentioned just before we hit record that you sometimes go for a little tea or a lunch with some, some friends you’ve known for a long time, uh, in the RA community. So how can people reach out to you, and what should they expect if they do?

Carolien – Yes. I became so passionate about health and the food that I did, education for, to become a nutritionist. So I started a little online business, a few years ago, next to my other job that I, that I still have, um, it’s called Mrs. Beans. Because my last name is in Dutch, it means beans. So, it is beans in Dutch. Um, so I thought that was funny. It’s also related to plant-based eating. Uh, I’m advising Dutch people to that have RA or related, to have a whole food plant-based diet. That’s basically it, it helps people already to eat whole food plant-based, the symptoms improve. However, if it’s not enough, you need an elimination diet. And I always tell them, you know, go to medicine if it’s not enough for you, but, um, just start with a whole food plant-based diet. It’s, uh, it’s already improving and of course, exercising and all those things. So yes, my Instagram page is, uh, Mrs. beans.nl. I also have a website that’s the same. Um, it’s in Dutch. But there’s recipes and blogs, and I sell a few ebooks and, uh, things like this. Um, you can also contact me with a question, uh, if you want to know how I do certain things, you can also send me a message in English. No problem. Yeah. So, that’s it, and it’s going well, and I keep doing it. Yeah

Clint – It’s great. It’s great. You know, and one thing that I want people to know is you have so much just natural desire to assist people, uh, through just absolute pure intent of them feeling better. And I just, that’s that’s just it’s just a beautiful thing. Yeah. And so if you’re in the Netherlands and you’ve enjoyed this, or you know someone in the Netherlands with inflammatory arthritis, reach out to Carolien. So it’s Mrs. That’s Mrs. Beans.nl on Instagram or over on the, on a website. Well, thank you very much, Carolien. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed seeing you again after several years. You look great. You sound great. Plenty of energy. Sounds like things are just absolutely swimming for you. Congratulations, and thanks for coming on the show.

Carolien – Well, thank you so much, and thank you for everything. Because, you know, it all started with me finding you and your program. So thank you for that, for helping me to get healthy and happy again.

Clint – Amazing. Thank you. Bye for now.