Jessica is finally off Methotrexate completely after taking it for 11 years for Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Here is what we cover in this interview:

• Jessica’s transition from a meat-eater to a vegetarian, and eventually to a plant-based diet free of oils and dairy
• How she followed a unique diet plan, focusing on specific foods that promote the right bacteria in the bowel and are rich in antioxidants
• Her symptoms began to improve within a month of altering her diet, especially in conjunction with gym workouts
• The crucial role of exercise in Jessica’s recovery, and the workouts that worked best
• Her gym routine, targeting different muscle groups with an emphasis on building strength
• How stress impacted her health and how she overcame it
• Her journey off methotrexate after 11 years

Clint – Good day! My name is Clint. Welcome to the Rheumatoid Solutions podcast and you’re in for a treat today. Another wonderful success story with rheumatoid arthritis. Today’s guest is Jessica. She joined our transformational coaching service 12 months ago. Her results have been amazing. She’s going to share how she achieved all that she’s achieved in the last 12 months, going through all the different aspects of her plan. On this episode, Jessica, lovely to have you with us.

Jessica – Yeah. Thanks, Clint. Lovely to be here.

Clint – 12 months ago, you were in a bad way. I want you to tell us what was going on. Just give us, like the worst, the laundry list compared to how you are today.

Jessica – Yeah. So 12 months ago, my left knee and both of my wrists were the main problem. My CRP was 53 back then, and I was taking methotrexate at I believe 12mg. And then I was on Xeljanz 11mg daily. Currently, my CRP is 0.4. I’ve stopped taking the methotrexate. I’m still currently taking Xeljanz. And then, both my wrists and my knee have significantly improved.

Clint – Congratulations. What’s it feel like to be able to reflect like that?

Jessica – It’s amazing. I have my life back, right? I’m very thankful. You know, I can move, I’m not waking up worrying about if I’m going to be in pain. I’m able to start my day. It’s very rewarding.

Clint – You’ve put a lot of work in, and this is not the first time that you and I have seen each other on a Zoom call. Now, because you’ve been working with us for that length of time. We have really been through this journey a lot together. I’ve seen you on, gosh, dozens upon dozens of calls listening to your progress over this time. So I know what you’ve done in detail. I want you to share with us in detail to the group, to our audience, watching or listening what you did. Let’s start with your diet and talk about changes you made on that front, and as much detail as you wish to share what you’ve done compared to what it used to look like.

Jessica – Yeah. So prior to joining the program, I was a meat-eater then I transitioned to vegetarian. And then since joining the program, I’ve been focused on just the diet that Clint recommends for us. So plant-based, no oils, no dairy, and I’ve noticed that has been such a significant impact. I followed the oats for breakfast, I have green smoothies every day for breakfast, which, personally, I think those have made a tremendous impact. You know, getting those greens into your system, the antioxidants that go with that. Because I noticed when I stopped doing that, I didn’t feel as good. So recommend the smoothies. What I put in mine, I will put bananas, pineapple, some ginger, spinach and coconut water. And then for lunch. I usually do sorts of veggies, rice, sometimes I’ll add a salad in there. I eat oranges with every meal as well, I forgot to mention that, even dinner. Then not only with the diet, I’m also following the supplements that you have recommended. I make sure I’m taking those daily, the grape seed extract with every meal. I’ll do the turmeric and probiotic twice a day, but that works for me. So overall, like, the diet has really made a significant impact.

Clint – Awesome. How quickly did you notice results when you shifted from your past diet onto that? I know we’re talking 12 months ago, but I want to condense all this information to be as useful as possible. How quickly did you notice improvements to symptoms with the foods? Or is it hard to tell because of your other strategies that you put in place as well? Like for example, with your gym? Or did you notice the foods really played a big impact and how quickly?

Jessica – Both, I would say with the food itself, it probably took a month or so for my symptoms to, you know, appropriately respond to that. But I also think the gym also enhanced how soon I felt the relief because I was going to the gym every day, I still go to the gym every day. I focus on utilizing the exercises that you recommend, but also doing my own research and my experience with the gym as well. I definitely focus on strength training and really trying to become stronger at the gym. I’ve noticed having more muscle makes me feel better. Like my body feels a lot better, I feel stronger, I feel healthier. My knee responded very quickly to the workouts that Clint recommended. I know he’s highly recommends the bike, I was focusing more on the Bulgarian split squats. I felt like that served my best interest, I still do them to this day. My weights are very heavy compared to where I started. I also do various exercises still on that program, but I incorporate more weight, and I think that has a lot to do with my success.

Clint – I want to shift into a deeper discussion around gym next. But before we let go of diet as a topic completely, does your diet now have enough calories, protein, diversity, to fuel your workouts, give you joy, and feel like something you could do for the rest of your life?

Jessica – Absolutely.

Clint – Could you elaborate? For people who feel that this area is the one that they would be worried about in terms of giving up, maybe their steak for protein? I mean, how, for example, how’s your muscle mass, how’s your strength progression, and all being fueled by these foods? People say, how is that possible?

Jessica – Yeah, I feel like I have more energy being on this diet just in general. I don’t get bloated, i’m not as fatigued from the diet. I also like, I mean, sleep, that’s important too, as part of the diet as well, making sure your digestive system is working. I’m also focusing on my movement too. I tend to get 10,000 steps a day, that’s something I’m actively working on. And I notice that benefits my digestive system. But going back to the food, I’m getting sidetracked. Going back to the food, though, I feel very clean. You know, my body doesn’t feel groggy or sticky in the way that, you know, a meat diet would. You know, it makes me feel clogged. It makes me feel bloated. I think it’s just more focusing on what the benefits that the food brings you and the joy that you feel and focusing more on that rather than what you’re missing out on.

Clint – Yeah. And at this point, listeners should know that you’re eating lots of legumes, beans. How are the nuts, tofu, anything that’s high protein, all of the above? Check check check check.

Jessica – Yeah, I’m eating tofu, I eat beans, legumes, I eat nuts, you know? I’m fixated on cashews and pistachios right now, yeah. I eat a wide variety of protein.

Clint – Yeah. Fantastic. Okay, so there is no reason that anyone cannot do this diet with any remote reason or excuse because of something they’ve seen on social media or some predisposed concern around any macronutrients or energy or whatever. This is the diet for minimizing inflammation and longevity. So moving on to the next, which is the gym. During some of our group sessions that we run regularly each week for our coaching clients, I have actually highlighted you and said everyone should take a leaf out of Jessica’s book because when you go to the gym, you don’t mess around. You started with a big, fat, swollen knee and wrist pain. All right. Things that really limit the ability to load resistance at the gym. But you’ve worked out of those scenarios by doing what your body can do and then incrementally increasing resistance with the right exercises. So, tell us how, like walk us through what you’ve done.

Jessica – Well, I’m very motivated to get better. Right. I want my life back. Right. I didn’t have that for the longest time. I live a very active life. I want to go hiking, I want to do things, and my knee got in the way of that. So I’ve dedicated myself to the gym. I have maybe about 4 to 5 Five different exercises for certain muscles. For example, like my quads, my hamstrings, certain leg workouts. 4 to 5 different shoulder workouts, 4 to 5 different back workouts. And I mix those up in my routine. So like, for example, on Mondays I’m focusing on back and biceps. The second day, I’m focusing on hamstrings and quads or I’m sorry, hamstrings and glutes. And then the third day I’m focusing on shoulders and triceps. And then the fourth day is quads and glutes. And then I also go to Bikram yoga, i forgot to mention that as well. Bikram yoga is once a week as well. That is amazing. Stretching that has helped my knee. That is helped my wrist. So I put a lot of effort into the physical fitness.

Clint – Love it. It’s so tempting for me over the years to say that the physical therapy is more valuable than the diet. It’s so close, it’s neck and neck, it’s 50/50. And all these studies coming out in the last few years around myokines, which are these molecules that get released from our muscular system when they are contracted under resistance, which are highly anti-inflammatory and interact to create a better microbiome. So this is an area of research that’s so exciting to me, which validates what we’ve seen anecdotally for the last 14 years since I started this business, is that those who get stronger, get better. And if you look at an extreme case of this, we did an interview many years ago with a bodybuilder who is, like, legit competition level bodybuilder, who finds that when he stops going to the gym, his symptoms come back because he’s not on any meds and he just eats whatever he wants. Well, he eats clean by bodybuilding standards, and so we know that what you’re doing scientifically has phenomenal anti-inflammatory benefits. And so we must get stronger, we must be disciplined and have a habit of exercise. And this enables the food reintroductions to be easier. It enables us to fuel our workouts and build more muscle better, and keeps us happier. It just cannot say more about resistance style workouts and add a one weekly Bikram on top of that and you’re like boom, forget about it. Jessica’s just got the formula.

Jessica – Yeah, the Bikram that kind of sets it over. It’s really good stretching and the sweating. I also think the sweating is a big part of it, releasing all that stress, the tension, all the toxicity in your body. That was one thing I should have mentioned, too. I go to I have a gym that has a sauna. and after my workouts, I typically sit in the sauna for about 10 to 15 minutes to relax and kind of decompress and let myself sweat.

Clint – How good is that? That’s brilliant. All right. Next. I want to ask you about your moods, your disposition. I guess your nervous system is the sort of the headline of this. How are you with regards to your thoughts that you sit in, your view of the future, happiness, that sort of aspect of this journey?

Jessica – Yeah. I feel like I’m at a very complacent place in my life. I have a lot of peace right now. Yes, do I get anxious, and does work stress me out? Of course I’m human, but ultimately, I think working out and finding coping skills that really help make me feel less stressed are a huge benefit. I don’t think I would have had the success I would have if I didn’t have, like, any regulation on my stress. Because when I’m stressed, I notice that I’m more prone to have a flare-up, or I’m more like my mood just change, my mood impacts my body. And so I’ve been very mindful of that bikram yoga has also taught me how to focus on my breathing, and I think that has helped me stay mindful and connect with my body so I can listen to it more to know what I need to change. So if it is my mood, I can fix that.

Clint – Okay, so you mentioned the yoga. What can I just get specific around? What do you think is the fastest and most effective way for you to reduce stress? And if it is yoga, what outside of yoga? Because that’s not accessible to some people. Maybe they don’t have a studio near them. What else is more accessible? That also helps.

Jessica – Laughing and talking to a good friend or talking to somebody that brings you joy. You know, whenever I have bad days, I’m calling my boyfriend because I know he makes me feel better. I noticed my nervous system relaxes, right? I have less anxiety, and yeah, so laughing for sure.

Clint – Awesome. Great. Uh, anything else to add? Because this is such a big one. When I talk about the big three, it’s the antioxidant system, microbial system and the nervous system. Okay. So the nervous system is like a doorway to the pathway of success and its shut. If we are in a stress state all the time, no matter what we’re doing with our diet and physical therapy, if we are just constantly stressed, the doorway is shut. We need to open that doorway and allow all that we’re doing to work. By getting out of this fight or flight state, which by definition enhances the rest and digest aspect of our nervous system. Anything else to add on this topic?

Jessica – I was going to say to for me at least, I noticed finding hobbies outside of just working out in the diet. Right? Yes, this is a big portion of your life, but it doesn’t have to define you entirely. You know, you can still do the things that you enjoy, but it’s just a matter of finding hobbies that fulfill that. You know, for me, I love spending time with friends, I love traveling, I love being outdoors whenever I can. You know, sports was a big thing for me growing up, and I’ve gotten back into golfing, which I haven’t done in so long, and it doesn’t bother me. And so I’m starting to find that I can have joy again in those areas, but it’s just a matter of trying, right? And trying new things. So I would encourage people to do that.

Clint – Love it. Okay. Now let’s talk about the two big problem areas, the knees and the wrists. What speed did you notice improvements in these areas, and what would people need to know about those two joints, and their responsiveness to these interventions in terms of time frame expectations, and kind of insights as to those journeys of improving those two areas?

Jessica – So for the knee, I’ll start with the knee. My knee actually responded fairly quickly. I would say within the first 1 to 2 months it was reduced. I was doing a lot of Bulgarian split squats, calf raises, shin raises at that time, even the bike, Bikram yoga. The weight wasn’t necessarily there, but I was regularly doing those exercises. Like I said, that responded fairly quickly, and I noticed once I got into the groove, that joint kind of stayed away. It was more of the wrist where I felt like it’s been more of a complication, because those are smaller joints that are more tedious. So I felt like I had to be extra cautious because I type a lot for my job, so that affects my wrist. So I have to be cautious of how long I’m doing that and taking frequent breaks. But the exercises that mainly helped my wrist were those rows with the cable rows, the lat pull downs. I’ve been hanging, I’ve also been doing pull-ups to try to get those stronger. And I noticed whenever I do have a flare up with my wrist, like I immediately go to the gym and I do those exercises and it one, it feels better, and then the next day the inflammation is gone.

Clint – I wish we could take that little soundbite of the last 15 seconds and post it at the top of every rheumatoid arthritis government website around the world to highlight the crucial nature of taking a physical therapy intervention when we have a flare or inflammatory day. If only everyone knew this, and if you’re listening or watching right now, I want you to take this. If it’s the only thing you’ve taken out of this conversation. When there is an inflammatory event, we need to engage that area of the body in a sensible, safe way through physical therapy, and it will settle that inflammation down. Okay. So thank you for that key nugget there. And then if we do that consistently and the resistance that we’re using through that safe exercise increases the likelihood of symptoms coming to that joint goes down. So you build resilience and insurance into each joint in this manner. And then even if you have some kind of reaction to a mistake with your foods, or the way that you sleep on your joint under your pillow or twisted knee or something accidental, that happens. Your recovery is very fast because that joint just isn’t as vulnerable as it was in the past. So thank you, Jess. That’s the kind of nuggets I was looking for in that section. Let’s talk about how you got off the medication, in particular, 12.5mg of methotrexate. Jessica, tell the group, how long have you been taking methotrexate?

Jessica – Too long. 11 years since I was 17. I am almost 29.

Clint – You’ve been taking methotrexate for 11 years?

Jessica – Yes, I’ve been taking methotrexate for 11 years at the highest dose. Once I started joining the program, you know, that was one of the first medications Clint and I talked about, like reducing because it is so nasty. You know, you feel sick on it, you feel tired, and no one wants to feel like that. So I would say after six months of being on the program, when we figured out my CRP was relatively stable and it was staying stable. That’s when we started tapering so I would go down like about 2.5mg and do that for like every 2 to 3 months. And then I would check in with my doctor. Okay. Levels are still looking good, so I continued to taper. So I just wanted to say I started that journey probably in October of 2024 and then I stopped taking it in March completely. And then I’ve been off of it since I haven’t had any issues.

Clint – And C-reactive protein remains at 0.4, I mean, forget about it. Like it cannot get lower than that. I think the measurement can only get to around 0.4. It might be able to get to 0.3.

Jessica – I did have some measurements of 0.2.

Clint – Okay. All right. So you’ve got a nice lab there that you’re working with pathology. So okay amazing right. You’ve got the Xeljanz left. You’re taking just the Xeljanz. Now, you and your doctor had a chat about this, you and I have had a chat about this. Naturally, everyone, none of this is medical advice. We’re just chatting about Jessica’s story. Jessica, myself, her doctor, all involved in communication around her drug treatment plan. And there’s no surprises here it’s all just legitimate talking through the right channels with her medical professional. Okay, the next challenge, if you like, or the next mission is to talk about Xeljanz taper. This is something that’s quite new to her rheumatologist. This isn’t something that, rheumatologists see very often, which is patients getting so well and having such perfect blood work, being so physically strong and having so little symptoms, they just come off drugs. Because what we do is just so like different planet compared to what happens in your day to day rheumatology clinic where patients show up trying to survive Lilypad hopping from drug to drug, trying to manage their symptoms whilst progression continues to occur, and it’s more imaging and it’s more trialing of different drugs and some steroids to mop up the pain and the meloxicam. I mean, the anomaly word doesn’t even sort of do justice to the sort of pathway that you’re on. Hence, trying to taper something like Xeljanz is very unusual. Do you want to go down that path if you can? And why? Would be some reasons why.

Jessica – Of course, I want to go on that path. You know, is that even a question? I just don’t want to be on medication if I don’t have to. And also, I’m so young, I want to have a family one day. And unfortunately, with the medication, I wouldn’t be able to. So I have goals in my future and I want to live the life I want to live. I don’t want to be controlled by this disease. So I’m taking my life back.

Clint – Yeah. Love it. Okay. And you and I spoke offline around the strategies around how to taper the Xeljanz. We haven’t rolled that plan out yet. So, I think it’s phenomenal how far you’ve come in 12 months. Those big swollen knees are no joke. These take a long time to get the swelling out, build strength around it. Then comes range of motion and then continually building more and more endurance. The wrist, as you said, a little bit more troubleshooting involved as you go through this because they’re so easily irritated. You’ve got those things under control. You’ve got your symptoms down to nothing, and then you’ve got off methotrexate. Still nothing. Okay. There’s no reason why you can’t shoot for the moon.

Jessica – Yeah. I mean, even just hearing you say all that to it just. It makes me teary eyed because I’m proud of myself. And I never thought I could be. I never thought this could be my life. Um. So I’m very grateful.

Clint – When we achieve things like this, it completely diminishes the, like, the achievements in other areas of life. This has such a greater impact on your future than whether or not you get, like, I don’t know, the promotion at work or something. Comparatively, this is what matters.

Jessica – Absolutely, 100%.

Clint – Because the promotion at work can be short-lived. If your health continues to deteriorate or at home, you’re miserable because you got no energy and side effects from meds and all this sort of stuff. And whilst this is a necessary pathway for a lot of people, if you can do what you’ve done, which is take immense responsibility, driven by huge desires for a better future and put in the action, build habits, get help from us to help and guide and coach and encourage and be a cheerleader. You can do amazing things, so congratulations! Keep up the amazing work, Jess, and thanks for coming and sharing all of this wonderful information.

Jessica – Thank you, Clint. Thank you for having me. And also thank you again for all your help and support, you’ve really made a difference and an impact in my life.