Todd has achieved remarkable success in managing his polymyalgia rheumatica: we explore his journey from debilitating pain to a symptom-free life through disciplined lifestyle changes.

We discuss in this interview:

• Todd’s initial symptoms and his struggle to find an accurate diagnosis
• The critical role of high-dose prednisone in managing early symptoms
• How a YouTube video led Todd to discover the Paddison Program and its impact on his recovery
• The challenges and triumphs Todd faced in tapering off prednisone completely within a year
• Sticking to a plant-based diet despite a busy work life
• The intensive exercise regimen that helped Todd maintain his physical health and detoxification
• His participation in the challenging rim-to-rim-to-rim hike across the Grand Canyon
• The pivotal support from Todd’s wife in maintaining dietary and lifestyle changes
• Todd’s reflections on regaining full health and the importance of persistence
• The encouraging message Todd has for others facing similar autoimmune challenges

Clint – Today’s guest has a phenomenal transformation with inflammatory arthritis. His diagnosis polymyalgia rheumatica, very similar to rheumatoid arthritis. And his transformation, as I said, is absolutely amazing. And so Todd, welcome to this episode to share your story.

Todd – Thanks, Clint.

Clint – Now, Todd, give us a quick snapshot of the sort of before and after that we’re going to learn about today that you’ve experienced.

Todd – Well, I mean, a quick snapshot is when I first found out that I had PMR, I had been to the doctor at least four times with very high CRP and SED rates. Finally, on my last visit to the doctor, my CRP level was 142. And so that’s the before the short before. And we can get into more detail on the whole history if you want. And the end result is that within the next one year, I got off the steroid and today my numbers are below one. So essentially zero inflammation.

Clint – Yes. Now this stuff is rare. Okay. So rheumatologists obviously don’t see this every day. So we’re going to pick your brains step by step. Everything that you went through. Um. Tell us, first of all, and again, we want to cut straight to the chase here to help people who are just wanting to find out all the details as quickly as possible. How did you find out about us, first of all? And then what did you do next?

Todd – Well, I found out about you, I sort of self-diagnosed myself because none of the physicians I had went to at any idea what was going on, and they all had recommended to do physical therapy, even with the high blood marker rates pointing towards inflammation. And so I was convinced this is not physical therapy, something else has to be going on. And so I just typed into my symptoms on Google, and Google told me polymyalgia rheumatica. So uh, when I finally end up getting to the emergency room with that very high rate that I told you about, and telling the ER doctor when I went in. This is what I have, PMR. As I mentioned, he called a rheumatologist said that’s what you’ve got. They started me on 60mg of prednisone, believe me, I had instant relief. And a couple of days later, my wife was on the internet, trying to figure out, well, what can I do to help my husband. And she came across your YouTube conversation with Lisa, and she listened to the conversation. She was beyond excited, called me up and said, you’re not going to believe this. I looked at this program, it’s the Paddison Program. This is exactly what you need to do, and I went on and looked at your program and, you know, 30 minutes later, I was paying the money and I signed up. That was shortly after I started on the prednisone. I jumped right into your program.

Clint – 60mg of steroid. Now, this is where we’re going to weave into our conversation here. Some warnings and educational sort of content for people who are living with PMR or rheumatoid arthritis, who are taking steroids as their only medication. When you and I first started together and we were communicating inside the online portal, I was upfront with you and said, look, if you’re only drug is steroid and you are not taking a disease modifying drug and you want to go from like 140 plus of CRP, being dependent on steroids to get symptoms down, and you want to get off that drug and have no symptoms. It’s the most difficult pathway of all because we can become dependent on the steroid and because steroids not actually resolving the underlying issue or helping with the microbiome and all sorts of things the way that disease modifying drugs can assist us with to some extent. So you, however, said I’m up for it and you went absolutely hard at this. And so walk us through the next steps here.

Todd – Well, of course, the first step was, jumping right into your program. It’s life changing, it’s very, very difficult because of the discipline that it takes. And since I started and have gone through what I’ve gone through, I’ve been a big advocate of people that I’ve met. When you have an autoimmune, all of a sudden people come out of the woodworks that have autoimmune. Oh my gosh, everyone’s got an autoimmune. And so I’ve recommended it to a lot of people. And I usually know right away who’s going to do it and who isn’t. And some people aren’t willing to give up or change their lifestyle. In my case, I went all in, I lived your program almost to the tee with one small vice, and that was coffee, which, of course, you’d say, give it up and I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. But, jumped in on the diet, uh, lived it to the tee. I travel a lot for work, I bring my own food with me. If I was going out of town for two days, I’d pre make all my meal, I’d bring it in a little cooler, and I’d have my food right there with me wherever I was going. So that first part and I think the most important part for what I did was do all of your steps, the diet, the wealth of information on your site with all the videos. I mean, there’s an answer to every question you could ever have right there on your site with the videos.

Todd – Of course, I did the calls with your guests and the other people that are part of your team. I even did a few calls, one on one with some of those partners of yours. And then I implemented other things to go along with the diet, exercise, proper sleep, proper vitamins, dry sauna, and you and I, you know this because, I don’t know if you coined this, that there’s no silver bullet or where that came from, but you you told me very often that there is no silver bullet to getting over this. And, of course, a lot of people have to find out for themselves. So I tried all different types of things to see can I speed this up? Can I make it happen overnight? And of course, none of it worked. I did ozone therapy, I did hydrogen water, a couple of other things, and I really found that the only thing that worked were the day in and day out. Eat the right foods, do the exercise. I found the dry sauna to be really, really helpful. But I did that, uh, for ten months straight, uh, with zero cheating. I got better and better and better, uh, to the point where I added a few things back that wouldn’t be on your program. And like I said earlier, about a year, year into that, I was able to go down to zero milligrams of the prednisone.

Clint – Which is phenomenal. How are symptoms? I recall that then you still had some low grade symptoms that were just bothering you, and we would go in and out of like compliance and then a little bit of cheat foods. So talk us through that period where you’re a year in and you’re off steroids. First of all, you must have felt phenomenally accomplished to be able to achieve that.

Todd – Yeah. Get getting to zero was, I mean, I was I was pretty happy about it because I think when you’re, you know, when you’re in it, you read other people’s experiences and you read people that have had these types of autoimmune 2 or 3 times, it goes away and it comes back. And so it’s a little, a little scary. You want to know when am I going to be done? And so I think that was the driver was to get done. Maybe not even so much to get inflammation and pain free, it was to get off the steroid. And so I was really happy when I accomplished that. I at one point realized that the rheumatologist wasn’t really, and this is my rheumatologist. I’m not saying this about all rheumatologists, but I didn’t think he was there to heal me, he was just there to give me a prescription. And several points along the way, he tried to get me like, oh, if you need this other drug, we can get you on this other drug. And from our conversations, I knew that I didn’t want anything to do with another drug. And at one point, I took total control of my own taper. Instead of following what he wanted me to do, I followed what my body felt and what I knew I was going through from a pain and inflammation basis. And so I ended up getting a different doctor, and she would give me whatever the dose of pills I wanted. Like, I wanted half dose pills, like, 0.5, so I could taper half at a time. And he didn’t want to give those because they weren’t on his taper regimen. And so I took over, I was able to manage that taper along the way and get off. And I was able to control the dosage of the prednisone that I was taking which was commensurate with the pain I was feeling. And I was successful in doing it. I think that the network that you have with your team, really can give somebody the confidence that with all the research you’ve done and all the things that they have access to, it is something that they can take care of on their own, at least with what I had in my situation. Maybe other people feel differently.

Clint – Yeah. Wonderful. As you’re getting down to sort of three milligram, two milligram. That’s when we were starting to introduce these half milligram pills, I should say, when you were starting to implement these half milligrams, um, what was it like? What would what did your taper plan look like as you’re entering those low single digit numbers? And how were the symptoms?

Todd – When I was starting to taper, I would go 2 or 3 days at one, then I’d drop a half and then I pop back up a little bit. Then I’d do it again and I drop a little bit more. So I did the up and down until I felt like, yeah, I can do that one. And then I would drop and I’d stay there. I got to a point in the low dosages where I started to build a confidence that I could stop this anytime. Um, but I didn’t stop it at any time because I didn’t want to run into the adrenal failure issues with just cold turkey going from 3 to 0. So I went all the way down to one and then a half and then eventually got off of it. I think a big part of it that helped with the pain and inflammation, and we talked about this along the way, was I was doing a lot of exercising, um, a lot of sweating, a lot of detoxification type activities. And I think it really helped with being able to get off the gut the steroid, as well as managing the inflammation and the symptoms that go along with that.

Clint – Couldn’t agree more, and that’s where we’re going to spend a chunk of our time talking about in a moment. Before we do, there’s going to be some people listening to this who are in a terrible way with polymyalgia rheumatica or rheumatoid arthritis, who are taking steroids and say, you must have had an easy case Todd. Sure, you had 140 plus crp, but I’ve tried to change my diet a little bit and I exercise a little bit and I’m stuck on the steroid. Speak to the scale of intervention that you went to in a moment with your exercise and compliance and stuff, but can you tell us, like, what your joints were like before you went through this process, just so we all can appreciate how significant?

Todd – It’s a good question, and I’m not the other guy, so I don’t know what he’s going through. But I started out on a plane to Munich, I woke up in the morning I couldn’t bend over and tie my shoes. So that was my first symptom was my hip flexors, I’m like, what’s going on? Yesterday I could do whatever I wanted, this morning I can’t tie my shoes. That was followed up with a, uh, brain fog where I’d sleep, and then I’d wake up and I didn’t feel like I was sleeping. And so this went on for two or 3 or 4 weeks, not knowing what I had, getting a little worse. My shoulder started hurting a little bit, when I bend over my back of my thighs up towards the butt would hurt. And I went out for my anniversary with my wife the next morning I woke up, I couldn’t move. I couldn’t get out of bed, I couldn’t take my clothes off, and I just started crying. And I said, you got to help me get out of bed, and you got to take me to the emergency room. And so, uh, that’s the morning where I had already kind of figured out what I might have. And we drove over, and that’s the day I started on the 60 milligram. So I would say that morning, I was the worst anybody could be, as far as I know.

Todd – So then I started on the 60mg, they gave me three days of painkillers to help sort of manage it. At this time, I didn’t know the bad stuff about prednisone. I learned most of that from you, your site, and then starting to research, uh, of how bad it really is for you. So my worst day was day one, because of the prednisone that worst day never repeated itself again. And I took enough prednisone in the initial stages, I think he had me drop down and when I got home to start at 30. So I started my taper at 30, and then it took me a year to get to zero. But yeah, I had inflammation, I couldn’t lift my arms, I couldn’t tie my shoes, I had all those symptoms from the inflammation. And, uh, they got progressively better and better. And I would say after the first 30 days, it got to the point where the pain and inflammation was more of a nuisance than it was, hey, this is this is really bothering me. So it was the point where I’d wake up and I’d be stiff and my shoulders would hurt like crazy. And as you know, by noon, sometimes it gets a little bit better in the afternoon. And so that was life for quite a long time, shoulder pain, hip flexor pain and pain. And over the course of doing all the things that I did with your help and the program’s help that that really started to subside.

Clint – What were the drugs that the rheumatologist was suggesting? Do you recall?

Todd – You know, I don’t recall. I wanted to say it was methotrexate, but I don’t remember if that’s what it was.

Clint – Yeah. Quick interlude here for people.

Todd – I think if I could just real quickly, I’m almost positive it was because I think he said it doesn’t start working right away.

Clint – Which is most of them. Yeah. No, that doesn’t help us too much but typically. So the rheumatologists usually follow guidelines similar or if not, the American College of Rheumatology guidelines, where if a disease is this, then do this initially, and if this doesn’t work, then do this. For polymyalgia rheumatica, the framework that is being followed is typically let’s hit it with steroids first a very long term steroids often over a year. And then let’s see if the patient still has symptoms in a year. And if they do then move on to typically rheumatoid arthritis meds which are methotrexate and the other disease modifying drugs and beyond. So for anyone who is listening with a skeptic ear here and thinking, well, Todd has simply just seen a polymyalgia rheumatica pathway where you go on the high dose steroids and in some instances, as the fable would be, that after a year it goes away. Well, let me tell you, and I obviously don’t know 100% of cases, but I’ve never heard of that happening. What I only see with polymyalgia rheumatica is steroid, steroids, and they need more steroids or shift onto disease modifying drugs like methotrexate.

Clint – So if there’s someone out there listening to this who got off their steroids with PMR and didn’t need methotrexate and become symptom free, almost like, you know, it took care of itself, let me know, because I’ve never seen it before. So what you’ve done is absolutely, absolutely, completely out of the box compared to a typical pathway for polymyalgia rheumatica. To the point where your rheumatologist, as you’re coming off steroids, is repeatedly saying, are you sure you don’t want to start a lifelong approach to medications, which is one of the disease modifying drugs? All right. So highlighting this point that you don’t normally with this condition just come off the drug and live happily ever after. So I wanted to say that. Now let’s just jump back into, what specifically did you do with your exercise? This is so important everyone paying attention here. This is where everyone drops the ball. Everyone thinks, okay, well, I can follow a diet for a while, but where everyone and I mean 99% of people drop the ball is not enough physical activity and strength building. So can you tell us what you did and what you do still today?

Todd – Well, uh, the first thing I was really careful about was not overdoing it and not trying to do so much that I damaged a muscle that was already inflamed. So I, uh, tried to work out at least six days a week, and, uh, three days I would run. And the other three days I would go to the gym and I would run a little on the treadmill, but the core focus was lifting lightweights with more reps. And I did that because I just wanted to keep my muscles moving, I wanted to sweat. Uh, my wife has it in her mind that my family’s not good at detoxifying. And so in her mind, maybe she thought one of the contributing factors to me getting PMR was not detoxifying my body, whether that’s right or wrong, that was her opinion. So she thought, you gotta sweat. And so, uh, really, two things were happening for me I think, one is I was sweating a lot, but two is I was moving. So moving is the lymphatic system’s going, everything inside your body is working. And it felt good just to move my muscles. And, uh, the days I would lift are the days I felt the best. It was like instant relief. And then I would always follow up those wait days with sitting in the dry sauna for 15 minutes, and sweating more and just the heat feeling, making you feel good with the inflammation.

Todd – And I tried the Bikram hot yoga, I know you’re you’re a big proponent of that. I really liked it, but I just could not get over the boredom of being there for an hour and a half, just doing the movements, and I loved it. I just thought, I can’t do this for this long. But when I went to the hot yoga, boy, did I feel good. Um, so that’s kind of what I did the whole time. Mixed in towards the end, uh, and even in the middle, I did some pretty, uh, lengthy hikes, um, with my wife. So I was still able to get out and do stuff like that. And then, I mean, now I don’t have any problem doing anything like that. I actually exercise, I think, more when I was in the middle of it than I do now. I’ve kind of turned into a little bit of a bum when it comes to that. But, uh, I think I thought, I think it was an important part of me recovering was the exercise part, I think all the parts working together.

Clint – You also recently did a phenomenally long hike. Did you not hike down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back?

Todd – Well, I did more than that. I hiked down to the bottom, up the other side, back down and back up.

Clint – Okay. Right.

Todd – Yeah, it’s called the rim, the rim, the rim. And it’s 44 miles, 11,000ft elevation gain. And yeah, it took 26 hours, uh, non-stop. So it was pretty long. I think the men’s world record is like five hours or something, some ultra marathoner. But it was an incredible experience. That was the week before I got to zero. So that was a year ago May and then the next week I ended up getting off the steroid altogether. Unrelated, of course.

Clint – Unrelated and yet somewhat associated because it helps us get an insight into the degree in which you were pushing yourself physically. Okay, so when we think polymyalgia rheumatica, we think lots of pain moving around in the body as you’ve put it. Shoulder problems, hips, groin, all this stuff, knees. We think debilitation, we think lots of steroids. What you’ve done is shatter that and said I just walked rim to rim to rim down and up through and back the Grand Canyon over more than a 24 hour nonstop insane kind of physical activity. And so I just want that to sink in with folks about this, this scale of difference between the two perceptions of how we should be living with this disease. And that’s what I want people to appreciate, is that it’s not a little bit of exercise here and there and nibble away at occasionally eating compliant. It’s what you’ve done is be perfect with the diet and absolutely Rambo like with the physical therapy. And I know it wasn’t like that at the gym, and that the Grand Canyon experience was not something you do all the time. Of course, however, the attitude, you know, that’s what I want to that’s what I want everyone to observe.

Todd – Yeah. I think everybody that goes through this needs a really close support person. And, you know, my wife, she was right there by my side and she cooked all the foods. She started changing her diet and eating the way I was eating. And so, uh, it was I don’t know that I could have done it without her. Uh, and I will say that, uh, not only did your program and the diet help me to get through the PMR, but along the way I would say that I was the healthiest I’ve ever been in my life. PMR aside, every single blood marker. I mean, I went into the thing with, uh, high cholesterol and high blood sugar. And 3 or 4 months into the diet program, every blood marker was right where it was supposed to be. You know, good blood sugar, good everything. And so, yeah, you’re getting better PMR, but if you’re religious about it, you’re also becoming your healthiest person ever. And so it goes hand in hand with it, like I told you before we started the recording, in a little bit of a weird way, I wish I had PMR again to force myself to live like that again. And yes, you can do it if you want to, but when you have something like PMR, it pushes you to be that way. You don’t have a, you don’t have a choice. And that’s how I felt. I have to do this.

Clint – What does your social group say about what you went through?

Todd – Well, you know, I think it’s one of those things where, uh, not a lot of people know what PMR is. People have heard of RA, but not PMR, so there was a lot of explaining. Well, this is what I have, and this is how it’s like it, but this is how it’s different, and here’s how I feel. I think everybody that I know was very supportive of what I had to do. Friends and family were concerned. It’s funny because, uh, I lost 55lbs, over the course of that year, and people today will tell me. Well, you didn’t look very good. Uh, you look way better now. And what’s funny about it is I thought I looked way better when I was 55lbs lighter than I do now. So they all felt I looked like something was wrong. Uh, and so, uh, yeah, they were supportive, encouraging, uh, happy. I got through it. And today, it’s something we really don’t even talk about necessarily, unless somebody just says that I haven’t seen brings it up and asks how I’m doing. So but it was an education for just about everybody because they’re not familiar with what PMR is.

Clint – Isn’t that phenomenal to think that it’s barely something that you think can talk about now. What does day what does your day look like now? Are you still active at the gym? What are your foods typically like?

Todd – Um, do you really want me to tell you what my foods are like now?

Clint – You know, there’s a portion of our community that start working with us and say, can one day I go back to eating like my favorite food, insert whatever, right? And I say, well, it depends on how well you do this and how bad that cheat is that you’re talking about. If it is like a deep fried chicken every day. I’m also going to be honest with you, you cannot get away with that. But if you’re talking about having a glass of wine maybe once a week, or if you’re talking about, uh, eating like a, uh, a piece of fish here and there, probably. Yeah, it depends on how well you do this and how compliant you are most of the time. So yeah, surprise us again. What are you doing at the moment?

Todd – I wake up early. I usually go running or go to the gym at five. And I’ve been trying to work out still 4 or 5 times a week. Maybe there’s some weeks where I’m a bum and I don’t do much. As far as the diet, nothing I eat bothers me. Uh, but I try to be as healthy as I can. Uh, as far as, uh, we still try to eat mostly vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian ish. Um, I will, I travel a lot for work, and I entertain so I will find myself every now and then having a steak. Uh, we try to drink as little as possible out from alcohol I mean. So maybe once a week or once every other week we’ll drink a little bit. There have been times where I’ve been in Europe where I’ve found myself eating in a certain way every day, and I’ve felt kind of, uh, cloudy. And I’ve, in my mind, gotten a little worried. Oh, no, am I doing this again to myself? And so I’ve gone on a, you know, a really clean stretch where I’ll yank out the buckwheat and the quinoa and the bok choy, and I’ll go back to my breakfast that, you know, the drill. But those foods are so healing, uh, that a couple, 2 or 3 days of eating like that and it reminds me of how great I felt during the course of, uh, the program and working my way to get off of the drug.

Todd – And it’s funny, when you look at your diet to start your, you know, people that aren’t used to that vegan type diet, eliminating anything inflammatory and only eating healthy foods, It’s like, I maybe I can’t do this, but I found myself all of a sudden loving those foods. And people will look at me, and I can’t believe you’re eating that for lunch. Well, they’re all eating something else, and, uh. But I think you’ll grow to love them, because you know what it does, it does for you along the way. So I follow the foods on your diet not regularly, uh, but trying not to go too far to the other side. I try to lean to the healthy, clean, and then it’s always my go to spot if I’m worried or concerned, or I start to feel like, uh, what if I’m going to be, like, one of those people that gets it again? Or doesn’t get it again? I guess maybe you always have it, it’s just in remission.

Clint – Yeah. I think that what you’ve experienced is similar to what people with RA experience is when we’re in sort of a place where we want to get to, which I describe as complete confidence and control over the condition. When we get to this point, uh, and then we start to do some things like you did, which is eat off, plan for a while, or maybe not exercise. Just inadequate exercise for a period of time can sometimes start to reveal a little bit of what’s under the surface that wants to present itself. If for you, in your case, it seems like brain fog is your first kind of alarm that goes off to say, hang on, something’s not quite right. But then you have the tools now and the knowledge to be able to then quickly adjust and take care of that and get yourself back on track.

Todd – I mean, I would say you’re right on on that. I, I’ve never noticed all of a sudden I’m inflamed. It more starts with that feeling of, yeah, I don’t know that. I don’t know that the things are right inside, inside my body.

Clint – What’s interesting about that is that there’s a ton of research around the presence of what’s called lipopolysaccharide, or LPS, getting into the bloodstream as a part of leaky gut, and that LPS can cross the blood brain barrier, enabling it to get into the brain and creating low grade inflammation, which leads to brain fog. So it’s quite possible that the in fact, it’s my strong belief that the same mechanism that contributed to the development of the PMR is the same mechanism, that is the brain fog, and it’s low grade inflammation driven by this endotoxin called LPS. So that’s what I think’s going on. And um, rather than it cross reacting in immune systems, cross reacting with your joints, you’re noticing that almost that pre level where the brain fog is starting to kick in. So you know, high fat foods, high oxidative uh foods like cooked oils I should say, meats and processed foods is causing this low grade low-grade brain fog. So do you still see the rheumatologist? What did he or she say when you eventually got off the steroid? What happened with that relationship?

Todd – You know, I don’t see the rheumatologist. Towards the middle, everything went to a hop on a five minute video before I’ll give you your prescription. And at the end that that was it. I he never messaged or called or anything, just, I never refilled the prescription and he never contacted me again, So I mean, I never felt like that they were vested in healing. They were, like I said, vested in supplying a drug. And at least my experience with the rheumatologists that I met with. I did go to a couple other doctors and for them it was really more about, well, what can we do to heal you? What are the types of things? I mean, that’s what I did. Like I told you, the ozone therapy and some of the other things, uh, like that.

Clint – Some of those things do have merit, like I own an $5,000 ozone machine. I did that a lot, it’s a weird experience when you use it the way I did, but I also have a hydrogen Machine similar like we’ve talked about in the past. Hydrogen water for a long time. In fact, I probably guided you in that direction there for a while. And, um, you know, these things have merit. We wouldn’t be doing these things unless there was some very strong supported evidence in the scientific literature. And for both of those, there is enough evidence for me to go out and spend that kind of money when I was in pain. And so I think that it’s good that we keep turning over these stones looking, looking, looking. We should never stop trying. But the fundamentals you’re sharing with us today are the real movers, the real pillars of health, which are get the diet right exercise to become the strongest human you possibly can within your joint damage that we have. If we’ve experienced some the strongest human we can the strongest person in your social group, that’s what we should be striving for. And then doing those two things is so empowering And we feel so uplifted and positive and and, and and have a optimism to us that we become excited. And the state of excitement and optimism disqualifies stress. So then stress isn’t holding us back, sabotaging our efforts to get well. That’s how you do it. And you have the beautiful, supportive wife. You had all of us there providing answers to every possible question that could come up. You’d seen the example of Lisa, who came before you on the on our episodes here a few years ago with her polymyalgia recovery story that I’ll put a link to right here, as we mentioned this on the screen, if people want to go and watch that next. And so you’ve had social proof support, loving care, all of the right approach. And this is what’s possible.

Todd – Yeah I agree 100%.

Clint – How does it feel? What’s it feel like to have overcome? Is this the hardest thing you’ve ever had to overcome?

Todd – I think so. I felt like, uh, you know, when it started you’re clueless and it’s a mystery and you’re like, what do I do? So it was panic. Why me? How could this happen to me? And so you go from that to finding a solution to doing the solution. And then when you get to where you’re done, it’s I mean, it’s number one it’s a huge relief, it’s satisfying. It’s an accomplishment. But you also, I think the other part of it is you want to be able to help other people that you know when you meet them. Hey, you should look this up, you should check out Clint’s program, and I have sent people your way that have lupus. I meet people with PMR, and I direct them. I’ve got a good friend whose wife has ankylosing spondylitis, and I have tried and tried to get him, but they won’t do it. They don’t want to change the food. So I think a big part of it is how can we help other people? I think part of it is like, Mary or not Mary, but Lisa sharing her experience, and maybe somebody sees it like we did and said, I can do this. Maybe somebody will watch the two of us and go, what? I can do that.

Clint – Exactly. 100% agree. And if that is someone watching this now? There’ll be a link somewhere below this video. Um, the way we operate these days. Watch some of our training, so you actually get an idea of what’s involved. Because this is no walk in the park. This is a lot, of lot of effort, a lot of discipline, sacrifices, steep learning curve. But look at what’s possible. Look at what’s possible with what you’ve shared here, Todd. And of course, all the other people that we’ve interviewed over the years. So if you’re interested, uh, watch some of the trainings that we’ve got. There’ll be a link below this video. You can see, uh, a video going through of how this all works. And if you want to book a call and talk to us and maybe go through the same experience Todd has, then you can take it from there. Todd, thank you so much for sharing today, my friend. What a story. You’re awesome. Well done.

Todd – You’re awesome.

Clint – Thanks, buddy.

Todd – All right. Thanks, Clint.