We discuss in this interview:

  • How Shukul and Shamiz are helping people all around the world with gut-related issues through their business High Carb Health
  • Shamiz’s experience with colitis, and how he was able to recover from a very bad condition with banana smoothies
  • How finding the right diet allowed him to stop the inflammation and greatly improve his condition, to the point that ten years later he is off medications and has just completed a marathon
  • Taking all lifestyle factors into account
  • The mechanics of gut inflammation and the role of animal proteins
  • Soluble and insoluble fibers
  • Banana’s composition and how it allows the gut to heal
  • Up to 20 bananas for athletic performance!
  • The many ways we have available to eat bananas, and when it’s best to have them
  • Banana milk
  • Medjool dates

Clint – Awesome. So with this, let me just. Welcome back. We have a great episode today with two of my friends. This is Shukul and Shamiz from High Carb Health. They have a fantastic business where they are helping people all around the world with ulcerative colitis. Shamiz has been on the podcast telling his story in the past. A few years back he and Shukul came on and talked about his journey and recovery from ulcerative colitis and went into a great deal of detail. Now today we’ve got these guys back on the podcast to talk all about specifically bananas. Now why would we go into so much effort to talk about bananas? Well, you’ll find out shortly and find out all the benefits of bananas. And we’re going to hear about how they were instrumental in the health restoration of Shamiz. So, boys, welcome back to the podcast.

Shukul – Thank you. Thanks, Clint. Thanks for having us. Yeah.

Clint – Before we get into the bananas and all of the benefits and how we should incorporate more bananas into our diet, why not just give us the snippet specifically on how people can get help if they have ulcerative colitis with your business and the ways in which you assist people?

Shukul – Yeah, sure. I mean, we’ve been helping people for well over eight years now, trying to heal from all sorts of gut-related issues, including colitis, Crohn’s disease, and diverticulitis. The best way to reach out to us is to get a free 30-minute consultation. Just go to our website, www.highcarbhealth.com and you click on the health survey or the free consultation button and you’ll just have to fill in a quick form and then you’ll get a link and how to book a meeting and have a chat with Shamiz.

Shamiz – Yeah, absolutely.

Shukul – And he can tell you all about how we can help you.

Shamiz – Exactly. And just share some of the information that you’re going through, what you were diagnosed with, and then we can sort of give you the advice needed. And if we work, if we sort of relate and we can work together.

Clint – I’ve seen some of the testimonials that you’ve shared and they’ve been phenomenal. We won’t break down each of those and go through them. But suffice it to say that you guys really are in the trenches helping people with the most severe inflammatory bowel conditions and turning around their lives. So obviously what you’re doing works extremely well. So why don’t we get the express version again to refresh our memories Shamiz of what you went through? I want you to explain what’s going on with ulcerative colitis and what and how the inflammation is affecting the bowel. Because I want everyone with rheumatoid at this point to really lean in because we have inflammation at our gut wall as well. We just see the outcome of that more downstream in the joints. But what Shamiz is going to talk about applies on a slightly different end outcome if you have inflammatory arthritis. So Shamiz, you went through so much, give us that, that awful journey. Tell us what happened.

Shamiz – It was almost it’s a blessing almost, you know, because, I mean, my whole family changed because of my pain and suffering. And I guess, you know, so many things have happened since, almost like a catalyst for change. So basically, back in 2012, I was diagnosed with a mild condition. I was in Japan at the time, out of all places, teaching English. It was a pretty crazy place to be in and be in hospital. I was in hospital for about six weeks. I lost about 30 kilos under the doctor’s care. This is a very summarised version. I was put on anti-inflammatory drugs prednisone similar to people with RA and immunosuppressant drugs as well, and they didn’t work that well for me. With inflammatory bowel. You’re going to the bathroom quite a lot because you just can’t digest anything. So every time you eat something you just getting diarrhea and then you’re getting also blood and mucus and things like that coming out. So your body is really trying to cleanse and trying to get out whatever is inside of it, and so that’s what my body was doing. So I got diagnosed with a mild condition, so mild colitis. And as I started to take the drugs and even the food that they were feeding me in Japan wasn’t the best. I think it was like miso soup, some raw egg, some fish and some rice. And that was considered digestive healthy for colitis patients. So yeah, I mean, I got worse and worse and worse and ultimately was going about 40 times a day to the bathroom.

Shamiz – I was in nappies, I couldn’t move. I had just absolutely no energy to do anything, it was pretty horrendous. My mum and dad were obviously there helping me and it was pretty bad. We had to find an answer because the medical system wasn’t really helping me a lot. And you know the doctor ultimately said, well, if you’re not going to get better, we’re going to have to do surgery. And at that point, I was just like, Please do anything to get me better because I was in so much pain, I was just dying inside. And, you know, my mom was like, No, this cannot be happening, and she didn’t want me to have surgery, which I’m so thankful for. She was basically the lifesaver, she saved my life she found a book online. Because we were in Japan, she typed in, Is tofu good for you? Just out of the blue. And this book came up called Self-Healing Colitis and Crohn’s Disease by Dr. David Klein. That book basically changed our lives for the better. So I started doing lots of smoothies with the good old banana and just soothing my gut, basically, and allowing it to heal itself. And that’s basically how we coach and how the body works. When we give it the right conditions, it is able to do the work. And so the inflammation in my bowel started to sort of come down because I was giving it the right foods.

Shamiz – I think it was the fourth or fifth week when we started to make these changes. And basically, at the end of it, I started the diet or started the healing diet, which is bananas, fruit smoothies, juices and steamed vegetables for dinner. I did that for a week, and my condition actually reversed. It actually got better, I stopped taking the medication in the hospital because I didn’t like the side effects and I wouldn’t recommend anyone do that. But I was just in a desperate situation because it just wasn’t working for me. So I had to. Do something about it. Anyway, the doctor finally did a colonoscopy. That was my fourth one and hospital. And he didn’t see any signs of any or very, very small amount of inflammation, but no ulcers and that was really great. So he discharged me and I sort of went away. And, you know, it didn’t end there, but we sort of that was where my healing journey really started. And six months down the track, you know, I really had to dig deep and get myself in a good place. But here we are ten years later, no medications. I’m supposed to be on medications for the rest of my life as some of your RA patients would be as well. And, you know, taking prednisone and things like that. I’m well and healthy, I’ve completed a marathon last year, last December. I’ve got so many plans next year as well. I actually signed up for a 70.3 half Ironman, the Cairns, so I’m excited for that and it’s going to be hard work. This is what we do, this is what we can do with plants and how they can heal, how the body can heal and, and, you know, gain that athletic performance as well, so it’s pretty amazing.

Shukul – Yeah. You’re asking about the inflammation in the guts. So maybe we can just drill down into that a little bit and kind of talk about how that happens, why that happens, and then how does it kind of ease off. Right. So when we’ve got these conditions, it’s caused by obviously an unhealthy, toxic diet and lifestyle like lifestyle as well. So it’s not just the diet. There’s other aspects to it as well. You know, talking about when we talk to our clients, diet plays quite a significant role as the first step in taking control of your health. But then you start looking at other aspects as well, like do you drink enough water? Do you get enough sleep? How well are you exercising and how’s your mental health? Because we’ve got a vagus nerve, right? And the vagus nerve is got a direct connection from our brain to our gut. So when we are under stress, our food doesn’t digest very well. When it doesn’t digest very well can start to, you know, undigested food doesn’t maybe even starts to petrify a little in our bowel. And so putrefaction is quite a big player in gut inflammation.

Shukul – So what happens is that when the food rots and purifies in our bowel, this releases certain toxins into our gut wall. If you look at the science and I talk about endotoxins leading to low-grade inflammation. Then, these toxins start to enter the bloodstream and cause damage to the gut barrier. This allows things to go through into your bloodstream, which starts to cause a bit of havoc in your gut lining. When you’ve got these food particles, proteins, and things going into your body that aren’t supposed to be there, then the body starts to obviously react to that causing the inflammatory response. The first step to deal with that is to first stop the thing that’s causing the problem, right? We need to stop the putrefaction of food in our bowels. The main types of foods are putrefying animal products and high-fat foods. They are the ones that are mainly dairy is a huge factor. We want to get rid of animal proteins and that’s the big thing. Make sure it never goes near your mouth and stay away from it. Well, obviously that’s what I was eating before I went into the hospital. I didn’t really care about my diet at all and I was just eating everything. I think that’s what led to getting sick as well and also my mindset a little bit depressed. It was winter at the time in Japan and it all sort of factors in. With that, it’s what we try and tell people that it’s not just diet alone. There are so many factors to consider when it comes to healing as well. Once you start undoing that damage, right, so now you’re stopping eating food that’s easier to digest. Now, it’s digesting properly and giving you proper nutrients. We can talk about the gut microbiome a little bit as well as we go through the chat. But with the inflammation, you have to stop the thing that’s causing it. You should stop putting fuel to the fire and I think you probably talk about that too, right? When you stop doing that and start feeding the foods that don’t cause inflammation, right, the body starts to heal its gut lining. Now, stuff doesn’t go through the proteins and the food particles don’t go through the gut lining. Then, things start to calm down and subside and the inflammation starts to ease off. It takes some time and it’s not going to happen like that necessarily. Some people are lucky this happens faster than others, but it just depends and you just have to be patient. With your clients as well, some people can see results in a matter of days or weeks. Then, other people take months or even years sometimes.

Clint – Absolutely. Yeah. The cumulative effect of what they’ve done in the past, often 50-60 years, plays an enormous role.

Shukul – Yes, I have the answer to your question.

Clint – Anything. Then, so that folks with rheumatoid see that we’re all talking about really the same kind of action and reactions that happen in all sorts of autoimmunity. It is just 60% of our immune system right behind that single cellular layer of protective epithelium. Once, as you mentioned, the endotoxin gets across that barrier, it triggers the immune system. What does the immune system do? Well, we know that it creates inflammation to eliminate pathogens. When it’s creating this inflammation, the gut wall is then exposed to the inflammation which can damage that epithelium creating a more leaky gut because they’re right there. As you explained, you had developed an order immunity situation where the body is cross-reacting to itself. Now, let’s get to solutions. I know that we each have different approaches to this and I would think that both of our approaches would work for each other to it to a large degree. So if I sent you people who’ve contacted me with rheumatoid arthritis and if you sent me ulcerative colitis folks, I think that we would show excellent results if we exchanged clients. However, what I want to concentrate on here is just I want to go to bananas. I want to talk all about bananas to set the platform here. I have recently increased my intake of bananas again, which has made me think of you guys. My dad has recently had joint pain associated with having another one of his boosters with his with this COVID vaccination program. After he’s had the booster, he developed some symptoms and so I’ve been helping my dad with that, as you would. I found myself really encouraging him to eat the bananas because of the research I have been putting around. I’m like, why don’t I talk more about bananas? We’ve got to get this message more emphasized and so that’s what I want to do. Why do you think bananas were the recommendation in the book that you originally read, and why do you think it was so effective at giving you incredibly quick results?

Shukul – Yeah. So before we get into that, when it comes to people who’ve got IBD, their gut lining is super inflamed. It is to the point that they can’t handle certain fibers. They went on the Paddison Program and they’d have to be careful about certain fibers. I’ll just let people know if they’re watching this they be very careful about raw vegetables and salads. If you’ve got IBD, they’ve got arthritis, you can probably get away with eating that without too many issues. But raw like the rough insoluble fibers, too much of that can cause irritation in the bowel.

Clint – That’s fascinating.

Shukul – Plenty of nuts and seeds as well.

Clint – We push those aside for a long time. They’re like 60 plus days away at a minimum. But interesting around the raw leafy greens, I didn’t know that.

Shukul – You can juice them but you got to take that to go take that rough of fiber out of your bowel just until it heals.

Clint – Fabulous. Thanks, guys and I appreciate that.

Shukul – To clarify that, it’s the same principle, right? You eat the healthy food, you try and get out of the body’s way as much as possible and allow it to kind of heal itself. If you create the right conditions, the body can’t do that.

Shamiz – It’s as simple as that, to be honest. There’s really nothing complicated about the solution. This is what we know and you don’t have to do anything crazy. There are no supplements, pills or powders, or anything that you need to take to heal. It’s just a very lovely generalized diet that they like.

Shukul – When you think about the consistency or the texture of the banana, it’s soft right? There’s a lot of soluble fiber there. If you think about if you’ve got something that’s really inflamed and what you want going through that inflamed. When you’ve got fruits, especially bananas, they’ve got certain compounds in there like pectin and guar. These are the things we use in jams to give that kind of jelly-like fluffy texture. When we eat these foods, that’s the kind of texture we end up getting in our bowels. Bananas are one of the best foods to help soothe the bowel because of the soft fibers, the texture, the pectin, and that goes into the fruit. When you eat that, you get that soft and it’s really smooth. When the gut is inflamed, you really want to avoid anything that’s going to irritate it. Then, that’s one of the first reasons that bananas are really helpful for healing. It is because it is allowing the body to heal.

Shamiz – It is why I think what happened to me was that this was a key factor and allow my bowels to settle because I was getting lots of diarrhea. Bananas can be really binding as well. The fibers from the bananas, there’s a lot of diarrhea. When you have lots of diarrhea, they can actually bind. It is because one of the main functions of the colon in the large intestine is to actually take water away from the food so that it can actually form a bowel movement. So the bulk, the fiber stays there and so that’s how you produce this beautiful bowel movement. But of course, when you have ulcerative colitis or Crohn’s disease, your bowel isn’t working as well and you get lots of diarrhea. The reason why is that your body is trying to cleanse, your body is trying to heal itself. When there’s lots of inflammation there, it doesn’t want anything to stay there, it’s just cleansing. Then, sometimes that can happen as some people can get worse before they get better. But eventually, the bananas will start to work and they will begin to bind your stool and you’ll have amazing digestion. I mean, I don’t know if you’ve tried it before, but if you want to try to have about three or four bananas in your smoothie. You don’t just have one or two, it’s not necessarily going to do much. But if you have if you start increasing the amount and maybe make fruit as a meal, it will start off with it. Then, make fruit as a meal instead of a snack and we’re big on that. We were eating like 20 bananas a day at one point because it just gave us so much good fuel. We use it for athletic performance.

Shukul – Yeah, we’re lucky in Australia there’s a lot more variety of fruit available than we had in New Zealand and that’s right when we first started this. But yeah, bananas were just a real high in calories, right? When you’re trying to heal from a disease where you’re losing a lot of weight, I’m not sure if all your clients are as well. They lose a lot of weight as they go through their journey. Just to have something that’s higher in calories is going to satiate you better, going to provide so much nutrition. They’re almost the perfect food for a human. If you go into a food diary and like a chronometer or something and you put in bananas and you look at all of the nutrients that light up or all the B vitamins or vitamins, they have all the amino acids. They’re essential good amounts of potassium and magnesium. It’s just fantastic food and it really helps with lots of electrolytes. A huge amount of electrolytes when you got diarrhea and other digestive concerns.

Shamiz – Some people say that a bite of a banana has more electrolytes than a whole Powerade or Gatorade or something like that. It’s just the most amazing food and it’s such a good base. When you eventually get better, you can start mixing in bananas and frozen bananas. You can make ice cream, you can chuck in blueberries, which are really good for antioxidants and it’s just amazing. You can do so many things with bananas like banana cake. Also, we didn’t talk about spottiness. Yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t understand either. There are two sides to it, right? You’ve got resistant starch, but you’ve also got the beautiful, spotty banana. We believe that this has a lot of nutrition as it starts to ripen. Then as the sugars begin to pre-digest, it becomes easier for your body to actually digest it because the tree or the plant does it for you. Especially when you have digestive conditions, we recommend ripened bananas for people that are going through this. Instead of the starchy banana, you can include them for that resistant starch, but you can do that with potatoes. Especially when like, this is going to be your main source of fuel. It’s also not as pleasant eating an unripe banana as a ripe banana. It doesn’t really blend very well. So the spot is the way to go and the anti-cancer properties and things like that, the more spot in the bananas, the more anti-cancer properties it has.

Clint – How about that?

Shukul – Yeah. If you can eat bananas at different stages of ripeness, if you don’t have any digestive problems eating bananas at different stages of ripeness, you get all sorts of different benefits as they get riper. you can have them less ripe for a bit more of that resistant starch and for the gut microbiome. But then as they get riper again, easier to digest, more nutrition, more benefits of fighting cancer cells.

Shamiz – If people are worried about sugar. We all know that fruit comes in a beautiful package, So you’re not going to get high blood sugar issues. Of course, we know that insulin resistance is not a sugar issue because it is a high-fat issue. If you’re worried about the sugar content and fruit, do not be worried about it because there’s a lot of fiber there. When you eat it, it’s not going to create that spike.

Clint – Hey, you’ve answered every question I had in my one little one super streaming consciousness there. I’m not going to try and summarize all the things that you cover just there, but it was tremendous. I love how you’ve talked about the different nutrients from the greener banana through to the ripe banana. You guys really are sort of the signature voice for the ripe banana. It is because of all the other communities when we’re thinking about trying to create short-chain fatty acids from the resistant starch in the form of such as butyrate, which is consumed by the epithelium cells to then heal and repair themselves and so on. Then, it is where all the focus lies on the prebiotic starch. But what you’re saying is that when you’re really inflamed on the side of more ripe because you’ll still get some resistant starch, just not as much and you can ease into it, right? The most important thing is to get the inflammation down and then we can go about more emphasis on the healing, right?

Shukul – Absolutely. The microbiome is not just about resistant starch. Right? You’ve got different types of macrobiotics as well. Carbohydrates that you need to have to feed the different types of bacteria and fiber is a big part of that too. Banana has a lot of fiber in them. Feeding them is all about variety, as you know, different varieties of plants. Now, when you’re trying to heal your gut, that’s less important. First things first, get the inflammation down. Just keep things super simple and consistent, and then you try and build the microbiome because at the moment, especially with IBD, is just going through. Most people with IBD are somewhere between 10 and 15 bowel motions a day, especially with colitis or Crohn’s. You just have to find a way to get the bowel motion frequency lower, that’s the first step.

Clint – This is such a good sort of similarity between our programs. Likewise, the whole emphasis in the early stages of the Paddison Program is to get inflammation low. As you say, we want diversity, we want to improve the number and variety of our gut bugs. But it’s pointless when we’re highly inflamed because we’re just creating more autoimmunity. Likewise, stage one is as lower inflammation as possible and stage two is a very slow and gradual repair and improvement stage. Now you talked about eating so many bananas a day, like 15 to 20 or something. I’m going to put the challenge out there to the people watching or listening to this. Let’s say people going to increase their banana intake. What would be the way to go about it? Would it be to say, have instead of one banana between meals, maybe two? Then, how would you ramp it to the next level? Would you maybe replace your breakfast or replace your lunch with a whole bunch of bananas? How would you go about it if you wanted to do a banana challenge?

Shukul – Definitely during breakfast, first thing in the morning, or on an empty stomach fruit digest the fastest out of any fruit. The earlier you have it in the day, the faster it’s going to go through your system, and the easier it’s going to digest. If you think about it in the stomach, we don’t want to have too many complicated things in the stomach at once. Especially with fruits because they are kind of a bit jealous of the digestive tract and want it to itself. If we can just have that first thing in the morning, that’s the best way to start.

Shamiz – I think everybody goes to the fruit and it’s just something that people love. It is because when we have oats, we’ve always got fruits with them to sweeten it up a little bit. Sometimes you can actually make fruit a meal and sub the oats for like a beautiful smoothie bowl. Then, we don’t want to put too many things in one go, especially if we’ve got some kind of gut disorder. We want to just keep it nice and simple, that’s why dates are also really great to get the calorie hit. We love our bananas and date smoothies and obviously, we chuck in some blueberries and maybe some raw greens. Then, because it’s coming into summer in Australia, it’s like fruit heaven at the moment. There’s so much good stuff in the shops.

Shukul – The way you can start doing it with a smoothie is probably the easiest way to build it up. If you’re already used to having one or two bananas at the most, you can start with three or four, and put them in a blender. Then, add half a cup of blueberries, a bit of water, or coconut water, and blend it through. With that, you just made banana milk. People always ask us, should I put soy milk or almond milk in there? You’re making banana milk anyway. If you put water, so why add extra complexity to it?

Shamiz – We try and stay away from processed milk such as nut milk. Just because there are a lot of preserves in there. Sometimes the guar gums and other things on the brand. However, you don’t need it and that’s the thing you don’t need to thicken it. I mean, we’re used to something nice and creamy like the old habits. However, you can actually make banana milk by itself by just blending a couple of bananas in the blender with a little bit of vanilla essence and a little bit of maple syrup for that matte or dates. Then, you can blend it and you can make it into milk. Then, you can chop up your fruits and you can pour that over the top. So you’ve got fruit cereal and that’s delicious.

Shukul – It’s got more fiber and more whole food. I mean, we consider plant milk as part of the whole food plant-based diet, but it is there’s still more processed. Like, soy milk is much more processed than soybeans.

Clint – I just got my head around what you were saying there, and I haven’t thought about this concept before. Are you saying you could do, kiwi fruits or mangoes or something, then that can be in like a fruit salad basis, and then you’ve got your banana smoothie and you pour it over the top?

Shamiz – Absolutely.

Shukul – There are different varieties that you can actually make a date and blueberry sauce, that’s one of the caramel sauces. You put like five or six dates, half a cup of blueberries, and just put a little bit of water just to thicken it up to let it blend. Then you pour this thick date blueberry sauce on top of all your fruit salad. Oh, it’s amazing and you have to try that.

Shamiz – Feel free to actually check out our Instagram too. It is because we’ve got all those beautiful ideas on there and we do that all the time.

Clint – Yeah. There are a lot of things here I want to say. First of all, if anyone’s concerned like this sounds like so much sugar, but remember that these are Whole Foods. The fiber has not been removed, we’re you’re blending everything, and you’re eating whole foods here. In terms of rheumatoid, there isn’t really an additional concern with worrying about insulin sensitivity or anything like that. We can enjoy these whole foods because the concern is inflammation, not whether or not you’ll feel energized, pumped up, and ready to go running afterward. You get a natural release of energy from everything.

Shukul – With the smoothies, you should think of it like this. If I’m having four bananas in a smoothie, how long would it take me to eat those four bananas? That’s how long it would take you to consume the smoothie. If you’re worried about drinking it, because if you drink it too fast, then that’s when most people have the issue. When it comes to like bloating or like even sugar crashes and that kind of stuff. If you drink it too fast, you should always chew your smoothie as well. Let the saliva mix with it and that’s where the first part of digestion starts. If you’re having a smoothie, always chew it and take your time. If you’re too worried about drinking it too fast, you have it with a spoon or have it like soup. Most of the people who have issues with smoothies because you’re blending the fiber have zero issues with soup. Are you doing the same thing?

Shamiz – Do you know why? It is because it’s too hot to have it too fast.

Shukul – If you’re worried about having it too fast, have it like soup or have it with a spoon. With that, I won’t go into too fast and the fiber will regulate everything because it’s still in there.

Shamiz – It’s like pre-chewing it really and it just makes it easy again. That’s why we want to blend certain things, especially if you have an unpleasant gut.

Shukul – Absolutely, that’s a really good point. It is because when you have an inflamed gut, you have absorption issues. If you can blend it, you’re more likely to get more absorption of the nutrition into your body.

Shamiz – It starts in the mouth, doesn’t it? As you break it down in your mouth, it’s starting to digest already.

Shukul – It’s also the surface area of the food. When we chew, we break down the food, and the more surface area you have, the more ability it is for the small intestine to actually absorb the nutrition. If you have lots of big chunks, you’re less likely to absorb as much nutrition from the food compared to if you eat it really well. Also, another point is calories and it’s much easier to get more calories when you’re blending. It is because when people are underweight, they need more calories to sort of gain the weight back. It makes it easier for you to blend bananas and obviously eat them rather than eating them. Also, it’s tastier because you can mix different things in it.

Clint – We don’t have to be sold on how desirable this is because this sounds sensational. The question I have is, let’s say we did this and I’m going to give this a go. I normally have oats for breakfast, but what I do is I have a lot. It is because I just don’t want to think about the food whilst I go through my morning. Then, I like to get to about 12 -00 and just have my lunch without having a snack mid-morning just because that’s where I’m most productive. Also, I just don’t want to think about food. Where will it get someone like me, if I replace the oats? Will it mean that maybe mid-morning there’s a fruit snack probably to be added to get me through to lunch?

Shukul – It depends on how much you eat, so you’d have to work out how many calories are in that bowl of oats that you have. Then you can try and replace that or you can substitute it with fruits.

Shamiz – It is why dates are just the bomb, because if you check in like five or six Medjool dates. Medjool dates are the big and the fresh ones, you’re getting that nice calorie hit without the volume, which is easier to eat. If that bowl of oats is 800 or 900 calories, then you’re looking at five or six bananas or five or six dates, and half a cup of blueberries that’ll easily hold you to lunch if you can do that. It will take time as well to sort of get used to that volume of amount.

Clint – Yeah. Okay, I’m up for it. Is there any issue with mixing as a transitional phase? Some bananas with the oats, as many people do.

Shukul – Only. I think if you’ve got IBD, it can be a little bit more tricky from a digestion perspective. But if your digestion is strong and good, then you’re adding a few fruits as a sweet known to your oats shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Shamiz – You can even do that sauce onto the sauce.

Clint – Yeah. One thing that you and I agreed on last time we were on here, guys, is not to put flax and chia into smoothies. This is something that I’m still very passionate about. I see this being done all the time by people who do some other programs. Have you over the last couple of years since we discussed this, change your position? Are you like me and don’t like putting high-fat things in with sugars?

Shamiz – No, it was self-evident for you wasn’t it, Clint? When you started doing it, you felt so much better and the bloating went away. I think we talked about the sugar, fat, and the combination of that not being good for diabetes or blood sugar.

Clint – Let’s go through that again and let’s just recap this. Why don’t you guys put Chia and flax into your smoothies?

Shukul – The mixture of fat and sugar is a hard one to digest. First of all, they need different digestive juices and the stomach to deal with them. But again, it also affects your insulin sensitivity. The lower the fat is, the better your insulin sensitivity. The better you absorb sugar into the bloodstream, the higher the fat, the more resistance you get, and the harder it is for the sugar to get into the bloodstream. When you’re mixing the sugar with the fat, that’s where we create issues. As you notice the bloating, it doesn’t digest as well in the bowel. Obviously, some people manage to do okay with it. However, just from a theoretical perspective, it’s not an ideal digestive sort of mixture.

Shamiz – We want to optimize as best we can, right? Especially if we have a disease condition. If it means that we have to do that, then we need to. Also, compliance is really important, and just going back to healing and whatnot. If you eat these foods on a daily basis, consistency is what’s going to get you the result. You can’t just be like, I’m going to eat this today and then go eat something the next day and below.

Shukul – In fact, we can’t keep the nuts and the seeds completely out of people’s diets until their bowel is healed. With too much fat, again, you’re working the gallbladder harder which releases more bile into the small intestine. Now, if you’ve got too much bile going into the small intestine, some of that bile can leak into the colon. When bile leaks into the colon, now you’re feeding these bacteria that we don’t want too many of, such as bilophila wadsworthia. That’s a really nasty one and you don’t want that one. With that, it is the one that releases hydrogen sulfide gases in your colon. Now, hydrogen sulfide gas really damages your gut lining and it smells like rotten egg gas. So that’s where people with high fat, too much fat in their diet can have issues. We prefer mixing if you want to have chia seeds and they’re very healthy for you. We prefer mixing it with starch or having them for themselves or with a salad or something ground flax.

Shamiz – Just pour it over your potatoes or roast veggies or whatever it is.

Shukul – A salad is really good. Also, just another thing to point out if you do have some kind of greenish stool. If you’re not eating greens, that means that you might have more bile production if you’re eating too much fat and that’s why it ends up in the colon. In which, that’s why you might see that green stool and that’s just something to be aware of.

Clint – I didn’t quite catch that. You’re saying if you’re seeing more of the green in the stool, it might be because of fat intake and high bile acid being created. Then, it’s getting into the stool and you’re seeing more of a fast release of the stool, correct? Is that right?

Shamiz – Yeah. If you see a greenish stool while eating greens, that’s normal.

Clint – I think those of us who’ve been through such trenches have worked out these extremely detailed nuances of this the hard way. Therefore we really do put our foot down and say, so-and-so’s approach is popular. But in reality, you’ve got to get back to get inflammation right down by eliminating the triggers. Then eat very gentle foods which are low in fat and easy to digest for a period of time. Then, we can start to have some fun and we can start to eat some more things that are a little bit harder to digest. Get those resistant starches into us, and get some of these nuts and seeds into us. Yes, but there’s a time and place for that, and we want to do it in synchronicity with the way our body digests food. Rather than getting all fancy with our Vitamix with combinations that we would never eat in nature. One other thing, I’ve made a note here that the omega 6 to 3 ratio of bananas is sensational as well. I checked it and it was its omega 6 to 3 ratio of 2 to 1. Now, you couldn’t really ask for better food.

Shukul – There you go. It’s literally the perfect fruit for a human. I mean, some people say we share 60% of our DNA with a banana. It’s meant to be in a way. I mean, it makes sense, right? I mean, there was a time when you couldn’t cook your food. I think bananas would have played quite a big role in human nutrition.

Shamiz – There’s so many different varieties of bananas too and you got plantains as well, which are so delicious. With that, it is why you’ve got the resistant starch that you can use as well. Going back to that, potatoes have a lot of resistant starch as well, which it’s so good for you too.

Clint – You guys not to get off our banana train, but on your Instagram, which is one of my favorite accounts. It is because everything that you make and put on there is like exactly what I want to eat and the way that our family eat. It’s just that extra sort of extra little detail that you’ve added often makes me think. For example, I want to eat that right now. So High Carb Health Instagram, that’s definitely a place to to follow. But you do have the other foods, too. You do have the potatoes and you do have all of the other things that are part of a more of a lifestyle friendly diet. It’s not just all about the healing on your account. How do you guys eat now? What’s it look like?

Shukul – We still eat a lot of fruit and that’s our main staple throughout the day. In the evening, we will have more starch solution based meal. Focusing on the starches, potatoes, sweet potatoes, pumpkins, then grains such as rice and big salads. With that, it’s our main focus, getting lots of fruit in throughout the day because we just feel that it gives us the best digestion and it doesn’t feel sluggish. Now, if you try and do that fruit smoothie in the morning instead of your oats, what I think you’ll find is you don’t feel your digestion at all as heavy. You don’t feel anything in your stomach, just feels like there’s nothing there as such and you’re still getting satiated. I feel like I get more energy throughout the day when I do that compared to if I eat something a bit heavier, maybe for lunch.

Shamiz – With my training goals, I tend to eat more the leafy green and I’ll add that to my smoothie. I also eat at every single meal for dinner and I’ll add a some sort of green, whether it’s raw or cooked. It is just because they’re so good for you and you’re going to get some good, good quality nutrition from the greens.

Shukul – The other thing we didn’t mention actually talking about your training is is the most amazing fuel for for training and recovery.

Clint – She just held up a banana in case.

Shukul – Oh, yeah. (inaudible) the banana. Well, that’s right.

Clint – It’s so conveniently packaged. I mean, it feels like we’re on some kind of infomercial for bananas. You can throw them into a backpack and you don’t have to use some silly sort of Ziploc plastic that you’ve had to buy from the store. Nature could not have made it easier for you to carry around your food and have it whenever you want, protected for you and convenient.

Shamiz – It’s the perfect fast food, isn’t it? That’s what fast food should be.

Clint – With the medjool dates, do you just buy those? There’s no way we can source them here in Australia or the US. I think they’re all coming from is it sort of the South American region?

Shukul – Actually, the US is one of the biggest exporters of medical products in the world. California is one of the biggest exporters. If you’re into medjool dates, if you’re in the US, there’s two amazing companies and I think they’re still in season right now. There’s a company called the Date People, and there’s another company called the Batista Family Farm that used to be called 7Hot Dates. It sounds like a bad dating website, actually. Basically, they have fresh dates and have lots of different varieties as well. But if you’re in Australia mostly you’re going to be sticking to medjool dates and then mostly from California actually you mostly get them.

Shamiz – We order like five cagey boxes because we love them. They last a while and that’s going to go off that quickly. It’s cheaper to buy in bulk too, so why not amd make the most of that? I mean, we buy boxes of bananas too. How much do you pay for a box of ripened bananas as well?

Clint – If you want to get like a box of bananas that looks like like spotty like this, you can pick out 15 kilos for $10-$15.

Clint – Yeah. Everyone else thinks that they’re only good for banana bread and or to be tossed out because they think that they’ve gone to right.

Shukul – That’s right, for smoothies and it’s perfect for banana ice cream.

Clint – Love it. Let’s say someone’s listening to this whole thing and they’re like, Man, this infomercial is good. However, the last time I ate bananas, I had a food sensitivity to them or I felt like it gave me a little bit of inflammation. Now, if that person asked me, I would say, it might be just that your current microbiome doesn’t quite match the banana fiber at the moment and there needs to be an adjustment period. Then, eat a tiny bit and eat like one bite of a banana each day for a week and see if it doesn’t give you inflammatory arthritis. If it doesn’t, then next week eat two bites of a banana and away you go. What do you think of that advice? If you’ve got some different suggestions for people.

Shukul – That’s a reasonable way to root cause. Also, it may just be that the bowel needs more time to heal and it’s not ready to cope with that particular food. With that, you stick with a food that’s that’s easier to deal with until we feel more comfortable with the way your digestion is working and introduce it. However, I would say it’s extremely rare.

Clint – If you’ve just got some new clients, let’s say ten people and you’ve recommended this. How many would have a problem with eating the ripe bananas?

Shukul – It depends, right? In terms of sensitivity to banana, it’s almost really rare and it’s very hard to find someone. I would say the majority of those people wouldn’t have a problem with it at all. But when they’re healing, sometimes as the body heals, it creates symptoms. You go through that healing crisis you hear about. If you listen to people like who actually do healing retreats like Dr. Goldhammer, he talks about a healing crisis or a period of time where the body’s going to go through a withdrawal as it removes toxic matter, as it tries to heal and get better. So sometimes the symptoms get worse. Now, if you introduce a banana and here’s a really interesting thing to think about. When you eat more fruit, this food digests easier in your bowel. When you have less effort on digestion, you release more energy into the body. Now, digestion takes up somewhere between 70 to 80% of your energy. When you’re using less of that energy to digest, the body can use more energy to heal. When it’s healing, it creates symptoms and sometimes when people start eating more fruit or they grow more plant based diet and their symptoms get worse. They’re not understanding what’s happening and they’re not getting any coaching or anybody who can tell them why it’s happening like that. They would say that the vegan diet or the plant based diet or eating more fruits made them worse. In fact, the body is doing the opposite because it’s trying to make you healthier. It is also because we always we have the saying that we it’s never the fruits fault.

Shamiz – Yes, it’s never the fruits fault because nature can’t go wrong. I think we don’t tend to focus on symptoms. We want to focus on the root cause of the problem. When you do get a symptom by eating a plant food, it’s not necessarily the plant’s fault, it’s the whatever was inside of you from previous.

Shukul – There is something inside of you that’s reacting that that food is reacting to. It’s not because this food is inherently bad.

Shamiz – Also, everybody else seems fine with it. We don’t believe that the human digestive system is that different. All the organs work in exactly the same way and that’s why we can get transplants. The human body does all the work. We might be different on the outside, but the process of how the body utilizes, assimilates and digests food is very similar.

Shukul – I mean, as a species like you and I, we have the same organs and we have the same physiological makeup. The differences are lifestyle, right? The way we are brought up, the way we ate growing up, and that’s all where the differences are. With that, it is where people have that they hold. The whole thing comes from like everybody’s different. Like there is there are some differences, but it’s not as widespread as as what it’s made out to be like. We have a species specific diet and that’s plants.

Clint – I love it. And so do those people who, after starting to increase their intake of the right foods, who then start to after a while hit a little bit of a healing crisis. Let’s just hold on to the to this to this moving vehicle until things settle down or is there an adjustment period? We don’t need all the details of how you coach interviewed individual but generally does it resolve itself or do you have to provide interventions.

Shukul – Most of the time resolves itself. The main thing to be aware of is that not to start too fast.

Shamiz – If you’re going into a healing journey and I kind of use a metaphor. If you’re learning to drive a really fast car, the first thing you’re going to do is hit the accelerator as hard as you can. Then, you’re going to learn where its limits are. You’re going to learn how fast you can go around that corner, what you feel comfortable with, where you want to, where the breaking point, and all that kind of stuff. You need to learn that with your body too. Like how much can it handle? How much healing do you want to deal with? We start with a bit of a transition phase and so ease your way into into the healing. Don’t do something like stopping your medication without any support or advice. Also, don’t try and go on fasting diets or juice only diets straight away unless you actually are using it for a particular purpose. With that, start with proper food. The first thing we tell people is just change one thing, which is your breakfast. Eat fruit for breakfast and then stay on the plant based foods for lunch and dinner. Then, you can kind of ease your way and we tweak it based on what people’s requirements are based on their symptoms and their history and what they’re trying to achieve.

Clint – Yeah, I love it. You guys look extremely healthy. Like your beards don’t have any gray hair, your skin’s glowing, and your teeth is white. I mean, clearly, this has got some superficial benefits as well in terms of the exterior, the quality of the cells and so on. Is there anything that it doesn’t provide? Is there anything that you feel that you’re lacking or missing out on?

Shukul – B12? Yeah.

Shamiz – Yeah, we don’t take any supplements apart from that just because we don’t need it. I mean, I don’t think a pill can replace this, this whole food. Again, going back to the root. For example, get your body up and running, and proper. It’s been ten years for me, ten plus years for me and probably ten years next month for you as well and that’s a milestone. That’s ten years of plant exclusivity. If we were lacking in something, we wouldn’t be able to do the things that I wouldn’t be training for a half on. The proof is in the plants. Yeah, we don’t supplement anything except for B12. If anyone has any concerns of crazy not not getting this or that.

Clint – Sensational. Well, fellows, this has been so fun. I think agreed is one of the most important convenient, nutrition dense, and healing foods on the planet, which is the humble banana. I would encourage everyone who’s sat with us and listened to us and watched us for the last sort of 45 minutes or so to eat one bananas and see how you go. Also, reach out to you guys if they’ve got persistent inflammatory bowel condition. It is because you guys continue to set the standard for how to treat that disease. With that, head over to www.highcarbhealth.com and go over to Instagram where it’s High Carb Health. You guys are doing sensational things and it’s your birthday tomorrow. Happy birthday, my friend, and congratulations to both you on ten years plant based and doing such amazing things. Thanks for sharing with us today.

Shukul – Thank you. I just like to say for just for everyone watching and listening, we’re huge fans of yours. We love your work and we always get so excited when we see all the success stories that you put out. Thank you for everything that you do as well. It’s just so great to be here with you today. Thank you. We don’t need to be sick. Yeah, thanks for having us.

Clint – Good on you. Thanks, fellas.

Shukul – Thanks, man.

Clint – Yeah.


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