Getting rid of brain fog is another crucial aspect of RA recovery, and another one where the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis can lead to massive improvements.

We discuss in this interview:

  • Jessica spent most of the day in bed. Now she is living a full and active life!
  • How having a second opinion from a different doctor can be very effective
  • Experiences with medications
  • Moving to the Paddison Program with immediate results
  • Energy levels and changes in lifestyle
  • The importance of following the Program
  • The connection between brain fog and gut health
  • Processed foods
  • Sweating, sauna and exercise
  • Support from the family

Clint – Today, my guest is Jessica and we are going to hear about her transformation with rheumatoid arthritis. She’s off all her medications. She also has massively improved her energy levels and her brain fog has cleared. I’m really excited to speak with Jessica. Good day, Jessica, thanks for joining us today.

Jessica – Thank you. It’s wonderful to be here.

Clint – Jessica, give us a little before and after here so we know what we’re in for in terms of transformation. How what sort of changes have you experienced?

Jessica – Before I started the Paddison Program, I was a zombie person and it’s the best way I could describe it. I was not able to live, but I wasn’t dead. I was in bed most of the time, and it was all I could do to spend a few hours trying to cobble together my thoughts. I was figuring out what was happening to me, and maybe do a little bit of research. Then, the rest of the day it was, can I get up to go to the bathroom or can I take a drink of water now? I don’t even want to think too much about it because it was so terrible. Now, I have a full life and I have a part-time job. I was able to get an accounting certificate so that I could have a quieter job, where I didn’t have to use my body and so much social interaction. I’m able to take full, wonderful care of my two beautiful daughters be a great wife, and take care of the house. I’m also a library trustee, which I volunteered and I just couldn’t be happier.

Clint – Okay, now I’m triple excited to hear your story. I’ve asked you the tiniest number of questions so I don’t know too much. I want to be as excited as our audience to hear how this unfolded. Something occurred to me when you just spoke. There is this brain fog and this heaviness and so on. How long had that been affecting you after your diagnosis, or had that been something that had been prevalent even prior? How long have you had the condition? When would when was the diagnosis?

Jessica – I was finally diagnosed, which is kind of the end of one story and the beginning of another in December of 2017. I know that because it’s written on my copy of the Paddison Program, but it was a creeping symptom. My symptoms have been creeping since high school. So now, in retrospect, I can say, all those antibiotics I had and kept having to have. I just got tighter and tighter, and I got more opportunistic infections. I got more and more tired, and I began to have sprains feeling and my joints. I never had joint swelling, but I felt I hadn’t used this wrist. Why does it feel like this? It was so many years, so many years of my life. I mean, I’m 40-something now, so it was a lot of years.

Clint – Then, when you first went to the rheumatologist, what sort of inspired that visit? Was it a particular so-called flare event, or was it that a progressive thing where it was like, finally you said, I got to see somebody?

Jessica – Right. It was a crisis after the birth of my second daughter, my health fell apart. I had been trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I knew there was something wrong with my immune system in my 20s. I knew that HIV was part of the immune system. I had one of those tests and I had no doctor. I had somebody at a clinic and I talked him into testing my thyroid. When after the birth of my second daughter, I got shingles. Then, between shingles and mononucleosis, I also had a redone. Shingles is like chicken pox redone and mononucleosis. You can also get again they’re both herpes simplex. When Obamacare came in, I got a doctor I got access because I was poor relatively speaking. I got access to the health care system and I started going at it and it was really hard. My advice would be to be persistent and keep getting second opinions until you find someone who can help you. I was labeled a drug seeker by the first doctor I went to, which was so humiliating. It just came out by accident when this intern was reading me notes. I never recovered from the mono is what I’m trying to say. I was in bed in this state that I described earlier. I think I do want to go through my symptoms because this is what I was searching for on the internet. Like, I would have a few hours a day where I like ten minutes at a time where I could be like, I have this symptom, and let’s go see if I can find anything. If I could treat one symptom, maybe it would get me a diagnosis. Like, I could figure out what was happening. I had debilitating exhaustion and I also had existential dread, which was terrible to live with. I had eczema, which I had had off and on in my life. However, this was the worst eczema including in my vagina, which no one has talked about yet. It’s a symptom that I went down a rabbit hole looking and a lot of other people have that with no cure. Then, all my other membranes were also dry. My mouth was incurably dry, my eyes incurably dry, my nasal passages were cracking, and I had body fuzziness. One of the first things that happened was when they put me on prednisone, which they did when they first diagnosed me. Then, I begin to feel my body and I’m like everything does hurt.

Jessica – However, I wouldn’t have even been able to tell you if everything hurt before. It is because I just felt like I had like a bad fever, but also everything was just numb, fuzzy, and tingly. It’s hard to describe and I didn’t feel right. Those were the things I had chronically 24 hours a day, seven days a week for a year. Then, I also had, on top of that, frequent optical migraines and the sparkliness around the vision. I had irregular heartbeats and spontaneous bruising, especially around the joints. Also, in my large muscle areas like my thighs. I would feel a ping and I would look and I would have a bruise there, a big bruise. Thus, all of those things together were frightening. I got together with my best friend and she’s like, let’s just Google it, which I had been doing. We got to chronic fatigue syndrome, which is not a diagnosis anybody wants, right? It’s worse than RA I think because like, there’s no drugs even for them to throw at you. Then, I’m like that’s terrible. But it got I’m like, what kind of doctor do you need for that? Then, they said you need a rheumatologist. Then, it was how I got to the rheumatologist clinic. Long story short, that’s how I got to the rheumatologist. I got to one rheumatologist and she said I was fine. I think you’re still recovering from mono. She did the fibromyalgia pushing points on me and like, you don’t have that. Also, I’m a hyper-flexible person. She’s like, you’re not stiff enough to have it. I had an Anti-nuclear antibodies (ANA) at this point, and I had a rheumatoid factor because I did have a primary care physician. I was offered psych meds at one point for depression and anxiety, and I was on those for two days. Then, they made everything worse. Like, if it could get worse and it was terrible. Then, I had a second rheumatologist, and the second rheumatologist was Dr. Todd Daugherty. I wanted to name him because he’s a diagnostic genius and I owe so much to him.

Jessica – And he said he ran a CCP test, which hadn’t been done yet, and said it was rheumatoid. He gave me my diagnosis and also gave me all that stuff that comes with the diagnosis, which is it’s incurable and chronic/ Also, it will only get worse through your life. However, he said that he’s going to treat it like it’s rheumatoid. If the treatment works, then that confirms the diagnosis. Thus, the treatment did work like steroids. I did feel a little bit better, although they ended up not agreeing with me. I wasn’t on them for very long, thankfully, and I started Methotrexate in December of 2017. Yeah, that was a long story.

Clint – Thank you. Then, did the treatments make your joints feel better and how did they impact your mental sort of clarity, brain fog, anxiety, and all of that?

Jessica – Yes, that’s a really good question. Honestly, I can’t give you a super thorough answer because a lot of that went in the black bag of things I never want to think about again. However, prednisone did make me feel better for some number of days. I was in the accounting school at the time and I couldn’t do addition. I went down the wrong way on a road like it wasn’t. It wasn’t okay for whatever was happening in my brain. I stopped taking that and only waited for the methotrexate to kick in, but I didn’t have to wait long. While I was doing the methotrexate, I also tried bee sting therapy. Somebody, I don’t know if this has come across your desk, and I’m not saying I don’t believe in it. I am saying I found the Paddison Program before I got very far. Thus, I would try the Paddison Program first for sure.

Clint – Paddison Program defeats bee sting.

Jessica – That’s right, it’s a lot less painful. You don’t need an EpiPen every time you go to the doctor to do that.

Clint – You’ve then transitioned onto the Paddison Program, and to any newcomers, this involves a complete change to your lifestyle from all angles. We’re talking about exercise and talking about diet. We’re talking about interrupting stressful sorts of patterns. We’re talking about sunshine exposure, and working on vitamin D levels. There’s so much more focus becoming rebuilding the gut and reducing the free radical load in the body. They are the two primary drivers of the program. It involves having to do a restrictive diet for a while and those other aspects. How did you kind of acclimatize to those changes? How did you respond physically and also with the mental challenges?

Jessica – When I found the program, it was through your talk, your Ted talk. It was right before Christmas and I had been motivated enough to get out of bed to wrap presents. I’m like, here’s what I’ll do for my life. I will just make holidays special for my children. I googled RA TEDx Talks because I knew Ted Talks could be inspiring and I had just listened to one about chronic fatigue that made me want to just jump out a window. I found that and I started immediately, and I talked to my husband a little bit about the cost because I am miserly. Especially, then when it feels like I’ll never be able to make a penny because I’m going to end up under a bridge. He said, you know how much money you’ve spent on supplements that don’t work and that is true. Just take all the money you’re spending on supplements right now that doesn’t work. Through the Paddison Program, I just felt so much hope and it was really hard. Then, we happened to have a treadmill in the basement that had been left, like on a neighbor’s porch for free. I took my laptop down to the basement. I think the first day was fast, right? A fast, a solid fast maybe and I’m not sure. Then, I put on the podcast and what I would do is. Then, I told my father I was going to get better. This is very emotional and I went down to the basement. I would listen to a podcast and walk as fast as I could on that treadmill. This is coming from someone who had a hard time going up the stairs and it was like a meeting for an alcoholic. I would do it every day and I would listen to those podcasts, and they would fill me with hope. I would say to myself, your children are more important than cookies because you get hungry. You’re raising your kids and that is so much better than whatever is in your pantry right now. It is because I did this with a husband who was on a protein-based diet and little kids at the time. They’re a little older now, but they were like two and seven. Thus, I had crap in the house and I did it, Clint. You can do it to whoever’s listening and thank God for those podcasts, that’s why I’m so honored. I hope that I can help someone else through. As for your wife, I listened to little videos from your wife, and I heard her in my head. Still, don’t let yourself get hungry. She is so loving and such an angel and she still helps me today.

Jessica – To your point, I got more and more energy immediately. Like you with the cherries, you got sick and you vomited and you felt better. I did remember we all got norovirus at some point. I was sleeping on the floor in front of the toilet. During this period, where I was just not there, I got up and thought I felt a little better. I remembered that, why do I feel a little better? I felt so much better immediately and I needed naps. I was on the basics of the program for many months and I could add things slowly. I’m trying to remember that somebody in a previous podcast says you don’t get better day by day, but you do get better week by week and month by month. I found that true and I got a lot better quickly so that I could do a load of laundry. Like, those changes are very significant. I could make my kids breakfast or I could ask them how their day was at school. I don’t want to talk too much about that because that’ll get me going again. However, the changes in the beginning were huge. Then, it was month by month and I did drop a lot of weight. A lot of people will be worried about that, my friends and family, that was their primary concern. I got a lot of, how do you know this is nutritious? How do you know that you’re not going to get too much underweight? I talked to my doctor about that and I never lost my period. I never got any little white hairs on my arms and I always felt good. Even when I was super duper skinny, I felt great. To jump to the end a little bit, I got sick or I got a cold because it’s back-to-school season here. I was sick and I stopped taking methotrexate as one does when they’re sick. The cold lasted a long time and then I got another one. Thus, I didn’t take methotrexate again. My little girl had the cold with me. Then, I noticed a few things and that is my energy level increased further. I’m always looking for the next thing, like the next energy boost. I had chronic anemia on methotrexate, which I know was not. Thus, I couldn’t lick it with the folate, no matter how much folate I took. Methotrexate does have a sedative side effect and I felt great off of it. I felt like I had that next level of energy and I had also been experiencing. Premenopausal or menopausal symptoms as an early 40-year-old and I knew that was possible. However, when I went off the methotrexate for several months, that all reversed. Then, I googled it as one does, and being on methotrexate for so many years can induce menopause. I had no idea and I’m like, we’re coming back to life here. I want people to know that too because that’s a great benefit. Therefore, I am off of methotrexate now by accident, kind of like you got sick, stopped taking it, and just never started again. I have it in my closet in case I need it, and I just don’t need it. I see my rheumatologist next month and I’ll run it by him. He’s. He’s very good and he will be supportive. Thus, here we are.

Clint – And that was three-plus months ago, right? The one question I think we 1 or 2 questions that we covered right before we started. My experience dovetails the same as yours coming off methotrexate. Again, we’re not encouraging this. We’re just providing some insights behind the scenes. If people are still taking that drug, if you feel really tired it’s likely the drug. I mean, the drug in my experience created a lot of fatigue. If you’re on the drug and you have a lot of inflammation still, like if the drug isn’t suppressing the inflammation adequately. Then, it actually could be contributing a lot to the fatigue as well. It is because an active immune system consumes a lot of the body’s energy resources. Also, it is taxing on the body to create white blood cells, inflammatory response, and activate that part of the body’s energy sources or allocate it towards that activity. Thus, my experience was like yours. When I stopped the drug, it’s almost like if you’re holding a rubber ball under the water and then you let it go, it bounces back to the top again. That’s how my body felt like my mind and I’m back on the surface again, and this is sensational. Let’s talk about your joints first. How are your joints? You mentioned that you had never gotten the swelling before, but clearly, your symptoms improved. You’ve got anti-CCP antibodies positive or your seropositive rheumatoid arthritis. We’ve not misdiagnosed you or anything like that. You’ve been on the rheumatoid arthritis drugs, steroids, and methotrexate. How do the joints compare today to when you first saw Todd, the rheumatologist today?

Jessica – Let’s see the beginning of the Paddison Program because then I actually could start feeling my body. I wasn’t feeling my body before that because there was just too much inflammation. My hypothesis was I would keep track of the one through five of the just like you said, the digits, the toes, the knees, and the elbows. Also, I did have a hands-on involvement. Like you said, I didn’t get swollen joints, but I got weakness and severe weakness. Like I couldn’t hold my toothbrush or I couldn’t open a doorknob. It’s like, what’s wrong with it? Like, the muscles are there, but the joints aren’t swollen and it just couldn’t do it. I would say that I’m a little superstitious and I’m going to knock on wood. I have one joint that I am that I keep my eye on, and it’s my elbow right here. I do have a robust hot yoga practice, and it’s a one. My elbow is a one and I watch it carefully because the stick I have been hit with, I am worried about being hit with again. Thus, I don’t have joint pain. I’ll also say that after shingles, I began to get debilitating headaches. It was a major symptom of my rheumatoid. Although I think most rheumatologists will tell you that the hips and neck are not involved in rheumatoid arthritis. However, my hips and neck were involved and I had terrible hip pain at one point, totally gone. I had terrible headaches that were neck involved and they are gone. If I have a flare, like last Christmas when I ate an entire box of chocolate, don’t do that or never do that. For two weeks I was dealing with this neck-involved headache. Then, the elbow, uh, was more like a 3 or 4, and then the fatigue kicks up. It’s two months of trying to calm that all backdown, but you just never know when you’re going to be able to eat a box of chocolates. Thus, every once in a while that little voice or that crew member, that’s like, maybe it’s cured and go for it. We’ll start getting a handhold and don’t listen to that guy. It is does not know what he’s talking about.

Clint – No, even I’ve succumbed to that. I’ve told this story a few times, but back several years ago here in Florida, we went to a famous restaurant. I won’t throw it under the bus because nothing wrong with the restaurant. We went to this restaurant and it was deep, oily French fries. It was sweet potato fries and an oily veggie burger. Now even that doesn’t necessarily qualify for me in my level of resilience to a certain reaction, but the difference was I had zero and I mean zero antioxidants with the meal. We’re talking no salad and no fruit. I normally have a glass of orange juice. It was such a mismatch between antioxidant and free radical combo for that meal, that postprandial which is the post-meal outcome. That little chemical reaction was a disaster. But anyway, not about me. I’ve made this mistake before and just like you shared, it takes so long to get it back under control again. It’s not worth it and it takes a very long time. The more you stuff up, the longer it takes. If you stuff up with just a little bit, you might be looking at a week. If you stuff up like I did, it took years to get myself back to boom robust Clint.

Jessica – Yeah, don’t do it. However, you didn’t have to panic and you didn’t have to get so stressed out that you were frozen. It is because you’re like, I know what to do and that’s the whole difference. Like, I know what to do, I’m not dying, and I got this. It’s just such a gift and like there’s nothing better. You have such control of your life. You’ve control of your going down the dumps and you can dig steps.

Clint – I just interviewed Eshita, who was on the last podcast, and she said something. I didn’t pick her up on it at the time, which overlapped exactly with what Michael Jordan says in his documentary. If you watch his documentary, he says this a lot and I picked up on it. When things are challenging, he learns of things or criticisms or problems, or so he says fine. I noticed this pattern with some criticism, though, someone said that they don’t like you anymore. He’s like, okay, fine. Then, it’s almost like, and it’s just this really quick pivot from, I acknowledge that problem. I see that that is an issue here, and this is how I’m going to sort of it’s not resistance, it’s acceptance. Then, what am I going to do about it all in one little moment? If we do something wrong okay, fine, and here’s what we can do. Now, I want to just go a little bit deeper into your mind. It is because it seems like for many years you had this brain fog and this lack of clarity. I want to hear about how much you feel that you’ve now become more normal in inverted commas. In that sense, your clarity, positivity, and energy. Let’s get into that.

Jessica – Absolutely. Before my diagnosis, I think I probably had scheduled with one at least one of the rheumatologists, because it takes four months to get in. I got an anxiety specialist to help me, a psychologist who specializes in anxiety because I just want it. I’m trying to put a fine point on how much this symptom needed attention. There is a quality of living in the moment. It is because I couldn’t think of what to do next outside of it being right in front of me. I live on a farm and there are cows. My parents go away in the winter. In that first year, I was in bed, my brother moved in downstairs so we could take care of the cows. However, I was like, I gave away my chickens and I couldn’t think of what to do next or I couldn’t rationalize anything. I couldn’t follow one thought to another without a huge amount of effort. I did a lot of praying and I did see an anxious guy eventually. I would drive myself down, which is probably not a good idea. It took half an hour to the the largest town and to see him, and he was wonderful. He was also very supportive of me getting medical, and seeing what would happen medically. At some point, he told my primary care that this woman was just suffering too much and she needed meds. It is when I think I mentioned before that I was offered and took for a few days the anxiety depression medication like a long-term one, which did not. It just like, amplified everything that felt terrible into this huge or overwhelming bubble, which didn’t work. My primary after my rheumatoid diagnosis, my primary care physician, felt to me that this is my judgment. It felt to me like she felt so guilty for putting me through all that for a year telling me I was hysterical. All my symptoms were because of what was happening here. Then, she gave me Xanax and she gave me 30 Xanax. I use those whenever I need to go out and function. I can’t think of a time. By that time, my husband’s father was dying, so I had to go on an airplane. I had to travel in a car and I had to move around, and that was just not even possible. It was like because I also had a two-year-old. I wanted to hold it together for her because I did not want her memories of her mother being a weepy mess, shuffling through an airport. Thus, it was so bad and it got, I would say within, within a year. I was like, I don’t need these. I kept them like I’m keeping the methotrexate. It is because what if I need them or what if it comes back? However, I wish diet were more part. It made me realize, what if all these people out here that aren’t being helped and could be helped? The suffering is so incredible and they’re just being humiliated and they just need a program like this. I do hope that this finds its way to someone because when you’re there, you’re willing to try anything. You’re willing to do this because it’s excruciating. There’s not a good fit in the medical system to treat you and you’re just treated quite badly.

Clint – Yeah. The connections are becoming more and more clear with sort of brain fog, clarity, and so forth, and gut health. One of the drivers of all this, and certainly in the area of Alzheimer’s and dementia and so on, is this lipopolysaccharide. All the translocation of the membrane or components of gram-negative bacteria end up in the bloodstream. This stuff’s highly inflammatory, and it can get into pass through the blood-brain barrier, into our brains, and affect our brain functioning. Also, it’s behind rheumatoid arthritis inflammation. Thus, there is a direct correlation between the amount of LPS, or endotoxin as it’s called, and inflammation in RA patients. You increase the endotoxin, you increase inflammation. Therefore, there is a linear proportional relationship. It’s directly and solely derived from the gut. It is a leaky gut symptom and it all once again comes back to healing the gut. In your experience, similar to my cherry incident, you explained how you’re lying on the floor. Then you realized, you know what I’m thinking clearer during that time, you’ve got fewer particles from the gut moving into the bloodstream. Thus, triggering inflammation in the brain, causing a disruption of the signaling and your thoughts, and creating brain fog. Look, this is my nonmicrobiologist background and I don’t have that background. I listen and soak in scientific studies, and listen to those experts. This is my interpretation and people should do their research on that. However, the studies are there and the studies are there. I could share the studies that I read on this. So what we ultimately have is this constant pollution of the bloodstream and the organs and joints with these LPS coming from the gut. If we can heal our gut through fiber-rich foods and antioxidants and reduce stress, it undermines those efforts. We will experience improved health across the spectrum of diseases that we experience. It’s wonderful to hear of these transformations for you. Can you speak to people who are struggling at the moment if now away from your story but instructional? What would you say to people? We’ve spoken about the Paddison Program, but specifically what type of foods, what type of exercise, and what type of day-to-day activities do you do to keep your mental clarity optimized and to feel good?

Jessica – I do first want to speak. I know, I’ve said it and I’m a little evangelical about this. However, I do think you need to get the Paddison Program first. I have been vegan because I was vegan in my 20s, and it didn’t save me because it was a lot of processed food. It was a lot of high and also I did an elimination diet for the eczema. When I was feeling terrible, I did the blood-based diet. I know you’ve said you can do it backward, but you do have to get to that restrictive point at some point. My husband jokes, here’s my wife and she eats birdseed and grass. I just want people to know that there’s a very narrow path through the mountain. There’s a very that you’re passing through the eye of the needle, and someone has figured it out. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel and just do the thing that works. Beyond that, my advice is it’s really important to exercise. As you feel more and more better, you want to skip that step. However, my advice is not to do that. I have been in and out of it, and I was blessed to get a sauna. During the COVID lockdown, I couldn’t go to the hot yoga place, which I took three hours out of my day to do because it was so far away, by the way. I was doing a space heater in my bathroom, and my mother thought I was going to burn the house down. I do have a sauna and I do a modified Bikram yoga thing in the sauna. I highly recommend that if you can, otherwise get hot and sweaty or do something hot and sweaty. Pump that water and eat that enormous salad. I do have a superfood I feel like I found I’m like, well into the things I can eat. I wouldn’t say do this right away, but I have a Moroccan stew that seem to like, it must have everything I need in it. It’s got carrots, butternut squash, onions, and it has tomatoes in it. I do it without oil, cumin, and cinnamon. It is so good and I can eat a lot of it because it’s new and delicious. I still don’t do the beans because I can’t quite do it yet. However, I have my pumpkin seeds. I do a lot of quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, and those work for me.

Clint – Fantastic. Your husband, obviously the early skeptic is on a high protein diet, which means meat-heavy and maybe less of the grains, and so on. How is his acceptance of everything now that he has his wife back, who feels great, who’s vibrant, who wants to come and share on a podcast? I’m sure that seven years ago when all this began, you may not have been able to string two sentences together. I mean, how does he feel about this situation now?

Jessica – It’s funny and I can hear him in the background, but he can’t hear you. However, I asked him this question yesterday, do you have any advice that you want to share with people? Then he said, I’m a little embarrassed that I wasn’t supportive early on. Then he affectionately called you, a handsome Australian witch doctor. Then he’s like, I was wrong because it works and I would have been supportive from the beginning. I will say, for like a whole year he washed my juicer for me and that’s damn supportive, and that’s really good.

Clint – That is because that’s a lousy joke.

Jessica – Especially at the beginning when you’re like, ha ha ha, you’ve just done like all this exercise and you need a nap.

Clint – What I love about these interviews is that what I think is hilarious about this is we don’t make any effort to try and sell this. We’re like, this is the hardest thing you’ll do and this sort of sucks a lot. The juice cleaning and it’ll suck doing this or it’ll suck doing that. I think the only reason we survive as a business is because it works. The pain of the discipline is better than the pain of the disease. You know what I mean?

Jessica – Yes, that is exactly it. I have improved the health of my family. My 15-year-old daughter will grab a head of romaine and eat the whole thing up to the stump, and that’s her vegetable. They both eat cucumbers every day in their lunch box. They also eat raw food, specifically raw fruits and vegetables, that’s their privacy, but it has improved their health. I’ll just say that it has improved their health. They can take that with them, and they can take the lessons that they’ve seen from me, and take it with them their whole lives and it will save them when they need it. They need some massive intervention, too. I’m hoping they won’t because of what they’ve learned and all their good nutrition now. However, you never know what’s going to happen. My husband he eats healthier now than he he was. He eats a huge amount of salad and he likes to put all the fixings in them still. It’s been good for everyone, even though they’re not doing it, doing the specific thing I am.

Clint – It makes you swell with pride, doesn’t it? It is because you know that this is an investment into their future and you know that it’s putting money in the bank or into their gut health. It will act as their protective mechanism against all the things that come their way in the future with a parent who has a autoimmune condition making them predisposed. So that’s what we’re like in our family and there are some non-negotiables. I make my kids at least 3 or 4 times a week and they can have oatmeal for breakfast. I’ve got the eldest now that’s her default and she only wants oatmeal for breakfast. Now, once you have that locked in, you can lock that in for life, right? If you just have a little brown sugar on that or you like a little bit of whatever it might be. A little bit of cacao powder a little bit of soy milk or a little bit of banana chopped up. Whatever the little thing is that makes you enjoy the oats, get the oats in, and that is just so foundational for the gut. I make the other two little ones do it 3 or 4 times a week. It is because we’re parents with an autoimmune disease and children with a predisposition. Therefore, it’s our responsibility to protect them from this thing that we never want our kids to ever experience.

Jessica – Exactly. I want to say that my 15-year-old, the one who will eat the whole thing of romaine, this is her room. That’s why the background is the way it is. She also does oatmeal every and that’s her preferred breakfast. I chop up and cook an apple in it.

Clint – Yeah, that’s the breakfast right there. Lock it in, leave it like that, and never change it forever. Wonderful, Jessica. Is there anything else that you feel that people need to know that you had to learn the hard way that you want to share with other people? Is there something we’ve missed here that you want to get across?

Jessica – I’m just looking at my notes. I think we have touched on everything. I do want to thank my mom because she was the only one who was like, try this. She read the whole thing because she’s a faster reader than I am. I couldn’t read when I started your program, I couldn’t read because I was too much of a mess. Yeah, she read the whole thing, and she found me a juicer at the thrift store. Then, she started making me when I could handle it, glutinous rice paddies because she loved cooking for me. She’s like, maybe you can try this and it’s like bread. She’d put onions in it or she’d put blueberries in it. Then she will be like, is it like cake? She was just so supportive and wonderful. However, I think we’ve covered everything else.

Clint – Awesome. Well, you’re glowing, and you seem so happy. You certainly speak with as much clarity as any of our other guests. It seems like you’ve got no brain fog going on at the moment. I think we’ve touched upon how it’s a full, balanced approach that we need. Thus, we’ve got to get the nutrition right. As you said, thread the needle, a narrow path up the mountain. It’s true and you cannot just guess at this on your own. I mean, you may get there in the end and it’s certainly easier these days with our podcasts. You can piece a lot of things together with our podcasts and so on. However, the nuances are exceptionally important. You’ve got the diet, right? You’ve got support at home from your family, your mum, and now finally your husband. I’m sure throughout this whole thing secretly hoped that this would work anyway. I mean, you can feel that you guys have got that wonderful connection. Well done! Now, remember the life of Pi, don’t get complacent. You’ve got the sleep and you’ve now learned to live with the beast without it hurting you. However, you’re still sharing a little boat or a little space with the beast. Thus, continue to respect that it is a wild animal and don’t poke. Currently, that’s where you’re at now and continue to expand your food base. You’ll build more insurance if you’re able to eventually eat some legumes and some beans. These are associated with longevity and better gut health. I would microdose those in and you’ll continue to thrive. I can’t wait to hear what the rheumatologist says when you see him. It’s just such a feel-good conversation and thanks for sharing.

Jessica – Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity and thank you so much for sharing this. Thank your wife for helping you do that. I appreciate it and it saved my life.

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