Liz’s story is a testament to the power of lifestyle changes in managing rheumatoid arthritis. In this enlightening podcast episode, Liz shares her personal journey from struggling with the diagnosis to living a vibrant, active life.

We discuss in this interview:

• Liz was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis after a rapid onset of symptoms affecting her joints.
• She found significant improvements in her condition through lifestyle changes, especially with diet and exercise.
• Initially prescribed hydroxychloroquine, her commitment allowed her to reduce medication under her doctor’s guidance.
• Liz highlights the importance of maintaining an active lifestyle, including recreational and curriculum-based exercises.
• She embraces a plant-based diet, which she believes plays a crucial role in her health improvements.
• Her daily routine includes intermittent fasting, oatmeal with fruits, and big salads with quinoa.
• Despite age and arthritis, Liz emphasizes the importance of staying active to enjoy life fully.
• She encourages others to push through initial exercise challenges to gain long-term benefits.
• Liz stresses the importance of setting an example for others, showcasing what is possible with determination.
• Her story is one of inspiration, proving that lifestyle adjustments can significantly improve health outcomes.

Clint – Welcome to the podcast. In this episode, we’re going to discuss what it’s like to live healthy with rheumatoid arthritis, to thrive, to feel like you don’t have the disease. That’s what this conversation is about with Liz. Now. Liz is vibrant, healthy. You wouldn’t know that she has the diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis. And we want to learn from her how she does it, how her lifestyle is configured to achieve this kind of outcome, her mindset so that, you know, we can tap into the way her brain works. And just the way that this all happens together to get the outcomes that she has. So I hope you love this interview. Let’s meet Liz and talk this through in detail. Liz, you look so well. The environment there’s so pretty behind you.

Liz – Thank you.

Clint – Amazing. So what I want to know is before we get to know you just talk about how bad things were at one point and how you are today to provide that contrast and that sense of transformation.

Liz – Okay. I would have to say it started when I go to where how to the point of how bad it was, it’s that it was an absolute shock because it struck me really fast. So I felt good and was really active for a long time. And then within, you know, I tend to forget it’s been a couple of years now almost, but within like a few weeks, everything hit, and it was my joints – shoulders, hands, wrists, knees, which was a real shocker. And hips and I was just baffled, absolutely baffled. And it was just a, it was just as anybody who’s watching this knows, it was just painful. It was painful. And it was, getting to be a little bit debilitating. And I was hunting for an answer really, really hunting for an answer. And it did take me almost a year to find, to get that answer. But the interesting thing is what ultimately led me to the answer was finding your TED Talk, which was huge, but I can get into this later, but it kind of came on top of already trying a new way of eating. So it was just like icing on the cake.

Clint – And how are you feeling now compared to those sort of struggling periods of time now?

Liz – Now I feel very independent. I feel as though I can do anything. It’s hard to believe that. I remember having to ask my husband to help me up some steps. I remember having to, I space out when I would take like, Aleve or Advil or something like that, because my doctor only wanted me to take it like once a week or something like that. And it’s like, okay, when’s it going to be? When am I going to take that? What’s my special day going to be that only really gave me a little bit of relief. But, now I just plain feel normal, and I feel great. I really do. See, I can move my arms all over the place. It’s good. I couldn’t do this before. And now it’s just really, I feel great. It’s such a blessing.

Clint – Amazing. You’ve. Let’s just check off a few people’s questions in their mind at the moment. What medications are you on now compared to say six months ago?

Liz – Okay. When I was officially diagnosed, I was put on hydroxychloroquine, which is the same as Plaquenil. And I was initially put on 200mg every day and then, well, this is kind of interesting because I think I may have told you this at the very beginning, but I was originally put on every other day, 400, 200, 400, 200, 400, 200. And then, I started really being serious about the diet. And my next appointment was he took me off one of those pills. So then I continued on doing 200 every day and 400 three days a week. And I did that for about. I’m terrible with numbers and remembering this stuff, which is really kind of a good thing. It’s a good sign because I don’t keep all this like in my head, like a little clipboard of dates and, and all that. But I think for probably about nine months, eight, eight months, I was like that. And then, as you know, I’m very happy to say that I now take 200mg a day, and I am going to stay there for a few more months. I saw my Rheumatologist on Tuesday two days ago, and he wants to then cut me back to three or 3 or 4.

Liz – I think three days a week will be the next step on the 200. But he doesn’t want it. And I agreed with him because I said, I’m not ready to do it yet, because I am loving being in this space of cutting back on meds. That is a wonderful feeling to me. And you called it something the other day with the glow of this working like this. And I don’t want to give that up yet. So I am hanging in there. And the doctor also told me that he is very pleased, really pleased, that I want to cut back more. And he is behind me all the way. Completely supports the diet and the exercise and questions me endlessly during my appointments about that. And, let’s see, he wants to make sure that I’m, that I do it slowly. He doesn’t want to take any chances of any kind of quick comeback, quick reaction, you know, where I’d have to go on something that I hadn’t had to go on before, which would be steroids or methotrexate, which is my goal is to stay away from those.

Clint – Yes. And now we’re starting to delve into some specifics that you and I have spoken about a lot. So for the background here, Liz is working with us inside our coaching, and what we’ve done is help her onboard all the lifestyle strategies that we’ll talk about throughout the duration of this conversation. And also guided her with these reductions. And just as she’s mentioned. What we see is that the whole demeanor of people when they are tapering their medications is so positive. It is this sense of optimism. The future is going to be amazing. This sense of achievement, of a sense of accomplishment. And that is such a healing state. Those emotional states are so positive to the well-being of the individual that we have a desire for that to go on as long as possible, because that is a healing state. And so with Liz just being on hydroxychloroquine, which is the mildest of the disease-modifying drugs, and her lifestyle looking so great, her doctor being supportive and Liz saying, look, I’m not like having terrible side effects from this drug. Everyone’s on the same page. Well, why don’t we keep this glow going, which is so healthy for the nervous system, for just our overall state and well-being. Let’s just, you know, continue to take it really slow here. And from our side, it’s not so much a fear of something going wrong if you were to stop it suddenly. It’s more of a case of there’s no need. And you feel so happy, right?

Liz – Yeah. There’s no need to rush it. It’s all a process that is taking place. It’s like I have a foot out the door toward total freedom.

Clint – Yeah, and that puts in the sunshine. It feels warm, and you’re like, that’s good for me right now. I like that, yeah. Alright, let’s talk about the lifestyle that you lead. Maybe you have a good way to do this. Might be, talk about your exercise routine first because this is where you really excel. You’ve got a wonderful combination of two things. One that we call recreational exercise. This is exercise that you enjoy that isn’t necessarily associated with predictable outcomes for rheumatoid arthritis. In the studies, healthy and enjoyable and therefore a positive thing. And the other side of things is what we have – curriculum-based exercises. These are the exercises that are associated with significant improvements to joints, to strength to overall glutathione increase these things that we want you to do almost like homework as part of our program. So what you’ve got going is both in and both at a substantial level. So just explain how your week looks in terms of how you move your body.

Liz – Okay. To me, this is all about lifestyle. And it’s, you know, and I’ve had to it just has to be how my week goes, how my day goes. And then day upon, day upon day and I will, it’s really important to me to get my. And I’m so bad at all the terminology, my weight-bearing exercises, lifting. So I go to to a gym called orange theory, which is a combination of cardio, floor, cardio calisthenics, rowing, and lifting. And I do that at least 3 or 4 times a week. And I get that in. And then at the same time, and some weeks I do it more, but at the same time, I’m also a cyclist, and I go out when the weather is nice here in Ohio. I will go out and ride. I ride a road bike, and I’ll go out for a couple hours. And to me, it’s just wonderful. Nothing like it’s nothing like sitting on a stationary bike for me, but, and then so that’s, that’s the recreational that is doing so much for me. And then in the winter, I like to ski and I also like to mountain bike, but I have to be really careful. I’m not a spring chicken. And I don’t want to harm myself, but to me, there’s nothing like being up in the mountains and hiking or mountain biking. So. Or skiing.

Clint – Yeah. You’re in a wonderful part of the world to be able to embrace, nature in that way. And yeah. Okay. So I’m going to sort of talk to what you do just for a moment, and then play devil’s advocate and say, but what about if you’re struggling? What about if someone at the moment finds it difficult to even use a stationary bike, as opposed to being able to get on the mountain bike? And we’ll talk about that in just a second. But first of all, what you’re doing at the moment is at such a complete level, you love your recreational exercise. It gives you enrichment. It’s joy. You’re in nature, all these wonderful things and you’re curriculum based exercises are comprehensive. You’ve scaled those, you’ve become strong, resilient, and so on. Um, and what we spoke about the other day, yeah, there you are with your hand grip. Strengthener if you watch.

Liz – Her, I have followed Carl readers guidelines and when I go to Orangetheory, I adjust how I am lifting and, and doing what I’m supposed to be doing through the Paddison Program.

Clint – Yes. And Liz is talking about Carl, who’s the strength building coach that is part of the team, who works with her and all of our members to customize the program. So that’s amazing. So you’ve got all that. I got all that dialed in. You and I just spoke the other day on a call and we said the only thing that can go wrong at the moment is having some kind of injury. And, everything is so well aligned that what we the only thing that I’ve seen trip someone up at this point is just being so adventurous with, say, the mountain biking or just really trying to introduce a new type of exercise, something we wouldn’t recommend, like a leg extension or a leg press machine or just another form of exercise outside of what’s safe because you feel so good and think that you’re superwoman. We don’t need to do that. I still run the same exact routine at the gym that I’ve been running since Covid. Okay. Same thing. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat because I know it’s safe. I know every time I step outside of it, something doesn’t feel as good. And I think that’s, that’s me. That’s, that’s my routine. And unless I make a slight tweak here and there, it’s pretty much consistent. But I’ve had a mountain bike accident, I was in Colorado before a wedding many years ago, trying to keep up with a local, who was actually the groom-to-be, and trying to keep up with him and the bike just got away on me and I fell and had a concussion and yeah, it can happen. So we don’t want that to happen to you and otherwise things look amazing.

Liz – Yes. I feel really good. I am very, I am cautious and I have really listened to you. I also, I was watching some of the videos the other day. And one of them you were talking about how far do you push yourself when you start to feel good? Do you keep pushing? And no, that’s one of the things I’ve had to, I’ve had to learn. No, I have my limits with weights, and because I have talked about that with Carl, and because I don’t want to harm myself. I stick with what I’m told to do. I stick with, I’m working on the pull-ups. I’m working on it. I’m not very strong in the pull-ups, but I’m getting there. But I do the arm, the stretch, the stretch things I do, the exercises that I’m supposed to be doing, and I’m trying to think if I’m still answering your question.

Clint – Yeah. Absolutely. No, we’ve got you sorted. I want to now pick your brains and say what if, let’s say we’re on stage and it’s a little Q&A session with you at a live event. And we’ve got 100 people in the room with various forms of autoimmune arthritis who are just starting on this journey. And the first question, they put up their hand, and they say, Liz, it’s all good and well for you because, you’ve been biking for a long time and you’ve had this help and so forth and whatever. If they’re in a lot of pain, like what advice would you give them?

Liz – Well, and I did go through that because I had been going to Orange Theory for four years, three years before I started all of this, before the RA came along. And I found that when the RA struck, I couldn’t do that work. I couldn’t lift, I couldn’t get any, I couldn’t get my arm up, but I continued to go, and what I did is I worked with them and told them what I could do, and I couldn’t row. I just didn’t. The pain was just too much. But I could walk on a treadmill or ride the stationary bike. And I pretty much stuck with the stationary bike. And I did that for a few months. Only that. And its because the pain wasn’t there, I found something that I could do. And as I got stronger and I stuck with a full hour, I always stuck with my hour. I didn’t, I could do it, so I did it. If I figure if I can do half an hour, I can do like an hour of this. And as I built up the strength from that, just building up the cardio and just doing that or on a regular basis, I very, I slowly began to get the other movements back as the food, everything with the food, the lifestyle, the exercise, doing, doing what I’m supposed to do for this program. As I was doing it, the strength came back. And I believe it’s all about the food and the strength. Strength is unbelievable. Strength is like magic.

Clint – It is. What you just described was so beautiful because you developed the habit and the discipline first, and the results came later. And that is the key with what you’ve just explained. So if someone’s struggling, we want you to just start with the routine each day, putting in place some time to work on some form of exercise that isn’t going to hurt you in your case. Liz, you said, well, you could walk without pain, so let’s do that. You were there. What else can you do in that hour to fill up the time? It doesn’t even need to be an hour. You were like, high achiever. But if someone’s got someone should do 30 minutes each day and fill it the most optimal way without irritating themselves. And then slowly the options open up as pain comes down when there are other aspects of their lifestyle are improving. That’s good. I really love that. Now you said strength is magic. Now, how have you noticed that strength building has helped you with your arthritis?

Liz – You know, that’s an interesting question because it’s hard to define exactly how. I’m sorry. I just saw my dog looking at me with a huge stick in his mouth. Okay, I have to laugh for a second, and now I’ll move on. It’s kind of funny, but Okay. You were just asking me.

Clint – Yeah, we know. It’s. We know it’s true. What a truth that strength defeats inflammation.

Liz – That was it.

Clint – Is in my like, I want to get a sign behind me instead of that backdrop that just says strength defeats inflammation in massive bold letters. It’s that important. I’m just wondering, what subtleties you notice that strength gave you day to day, both happiness-wise, self-esteem-wise, physically, what did you experience as you got stronger?

Liz – I experienced things like, an old habit that I’ve had for years, and I had to stop it a couple years ago. Was I’ve always gone up steps like two at a time, that goes way back. That was just a thing I always kind of did to keep my legs strong. If I was moving along and I started noticing that I was skipping steps again and that was huge. That really that said a lot to me. And, another thing was just, I wasn’t dropping things anymore and I had always been dropping things. I do love to travel and I couldn’t get a suitcase up above a plane, a seat on a plane and suddenly I could get that suitcase up there and I was just, it’s just I was doing everything again, but and not just walking up the stairs, but, you know, making sure I always hold on to something, but more like I’ve caught myself starting to bound up the stairs and just doing everything faster and just feeling so much better. Yeah, I went on a walk the other day with a friend who is the fastest walker I’ve ever known in my life, and I went with her about a year ago, and it was a torturous walk. It was, it was killing me. It was about it was a 45 minute walk.

Liz – And it was so fast. And by the time I got back, and I was really just starting, trying to think if I was even, I don’t think I was, I may have just started medication or something, but I was at the very beginning of knowing that I had the RA and I went on that same walk and it was an identical walk with her last week and it just it was okay. It just wasn’t torture. It wasn’t fun. But it was it wasn’t torture. So those are the things that I notice that I, I just move so much, so much better. And I have these little personal things that I do. Like if I’m sitting on the floor, I don’t let myself use my hands. I make myself somehow get up just using my legs. And I couldn’t, I couldn’t have done that a year ago. Absolutely not, and I believe it’s because of the, of building strength, and it comes on so subtly that, that I didn’t, I don’t realize it. And then all of a sudden it’s like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe this is just feeling so good, but I’m going to stay with this weight because to go like, like you said, to, to change when I have when I’ve had such results to change and risk injuring myself is not worth it.

Clint – Yeah. love it. Okay. Now, throughout these conversations, I think what would our audience be thinking? One thing that I just want to raise here is if anyone thinks that Liz’s improvements were due to the hydroxychloroquine, we’ve got some notes here when she joined with us as to her current status, and she was on medication consistently. And so what we’re talking about are improvements that have happened after steady-state, long-term use of hydroxychloroquine. She had neck pain whilst on the medications after being on them steadily for many, many months. Occasionally shoulder pain, hand pain, wrist pain, neuropathy in her feet. And then now she only has a little bit of neck pain. Sometimes when you’ll maybe be a little bit complacent with some aspect of the program,

Liz – Right. Something I’ve eaten. I see the neck pain as a reaction. It’s a reaction to something that I’ve eaten it almost every time. And it’s usually from a restaurant.

Clint – Yep, so I just want to put that thought to bed to help to really crystallize and validate everything that you’ve been sharing. So, okay, foods you’ve talked about the foods helping you a lot. Give us like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And then I want to explore if you enjoy the foods and how much of a challenge this was into eating this way and everything associated with the whole dietary part of this.

Liz – Well, first of all, I consider myself really fortunate in that I was diagnosed during a period in my life where I had been a healthy eater, not plant based, but not completely plant based, but I already liked tofu. I liked black beans. I liked all I like brown rice, I already liked quinoa, and I ate all of those, all the grains. I hadn’t been gluten free that came along right before the program started, which I believe was part of what helped the hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine start to work for me when it doesn’t work for some people.

Clint – So getting started with the foods for you was not an abrupt change.

Liz – It wasn’t an abrupt change. But what I want to say is it was for me a long time ago when I made a change. I made a change for weight loss years ago. I was always battling weight, and I thought I’ve just kind of had it with this. So I started changing the way that I eat, and I just started loving these foods. And it does, it happens. Even, I think I, I think I told you one time, it was, you know, lettuce tastes good by itself. Did I ever know that? No. But once you don’t have once I had didn’t have to put stuff on everything, I found that these foods just taste so good on their own. And there are so many ways to still eat in a wonderful way and not feel deprived. Salads can be great. And little did I know, I was going to love miso paste and seaweed. And I love it, I really do. And I can see where it could be really devastating to even think about a change like that, but it doesn’t all have to be done overnight does it? And, and the way the program goes with starting out with the cleanse, that is such an eye opener because the pain just drops away. And that is just, it just says it all. It’s like, okay, now I have to build up from there. Yeah. And a lot of foods just aren’t they aren’t worth it anymore. Deep-fried foods, as we’ve always said on this program, Kryptonite. And I look at that, and it’s like, I don’t want that. Not at all.

Clint – Yeah.

Liz – It’s not worth.

Liz – It’ll make me it’ll make me not be able to turn my head the next day.

Clint – Yeah. That’s it. So tell us, give us what you had for breakfast, lunch and dinner today or another day. If it’s today was a bit unusual. What’s generally breakfast, lunch, dinner? Now that you’ve been through all of the gut restoration processes. Keep in mind, if someone’s. This is the first podcast of ours you’ve listened to. Where Liz is at is not where you begin. So, this is not like the starting point. We have to go through a lot of processes to be able to tolerate these foods. But what are you, what are you reading now, Liz?

Liz – Well, one thing that I do a lot is the intermittent fasting. You know, like not eating after seven and then, not starting till, you know, right around noon or right before noon or whatever. So I don’t always get breakfast in there, but somehow, fit this in. And in a day I like to have oatmeal and fruit, and I will throw black beans into that. And I, and I know this sounds gross, but I also will put lettuce in there. I’ll put greens in there, stir it all up, and it’s great with all. And then fruit and a tons of berries. And that tastes really good to me. And greens. I eat like crazy for lunch, it would be a big salad with tofu miso paste, Apple cider vinegar, and the Zinzino yeah, I use that in the like in my in a salad. And then I’ll always throw quinoa or brown rice in there, but quinoa is just, it’s a staple. I just cook big pots of it, and then I just wrap up cups of it, throw it in the freezer, pull it out, put it in the microwave, and throw it in a salad.

Clint – Easy, easy. Yep.

Liz – And then dinner is very dinner is very similar to what I eat for lunch. And I’m always looking for different. The plant-based foods. When I’m at home, I am plant based. I know I’ve been honest with you. When I eat out, I’m not always plant based, but I’m very careful about how I do it, and that would mean chicken or fish. But otherwise I don’t get into the other, pasta and all that. I don’t do any of that.

Clint – Okay. Yeah.

Liz – Stay away from the processed foods. Did I? I think I answered yeah.

Clint – Yeah, that’s good.

Clint – I wasn’t aware of the a little bit of intermittent fasting that you had going on there that’s new to me. I don’t know why I didn’t come across that with you before. That’s neither here nor there. If people can get their calorie intake in, in a restricted window, then that’s fine. As long as we’re weight stable, which you are, calorie adequate, which you must be with all your exercise if you’re, meeting your energy while you’re out there on the bike and doing your weights, then perfectly fine. It sounds like you’ve kind of done this very unique combo where you’ve almost combined your breakfast and lunch by adding black beans into your with your oatmeal and stuff. It’s like very unique.

Liz – Well, because I usually work out in the morning and I don’t want, I don’t like to eat before I work out. And then I come home, and I’ll be hungry. And I know that is recommended, you know, to wait those hours in between, for the gut microbiome. And so I’m kind of I’m trying, I work on, I don’t like to use the word trying because I think trying is just trying, do it. So I do it as often as it works into my life to just follow things, just to, to have a regimen and follow it and to just make it part of my life. It just,it has to, because it works.

Clint – That’s right.

Liz – It works.

Clint – That’s right. My dad used to put in these crazy combinations of leftovers on. We grew up on a farm, and he’d have these crazy combinations of leftovers and things, and kids would be looking at him like, what is that, dad? Like some weird. And my dad, he’s like, it all looks the same once it’s in your stomach. So his whole thing was. It doesn’t matter. And truthfully, the body isn’t putting eyes on what combination is going in. It just sees macronutrients. It sees fiber, it sees polyphenols. And it just identifies the components of the foods. So if there is, there’s neither here nor there. The way in which they are put together on the plate, as long as we’re plant based. Because if you have, say, a meat and fruit, you can run into digestive issues. And of course, combinations that involve cooked oils, you’re going to drive inflammation. And so, but you’re not doing any of that stuff. So, any combination of your plant foods that you enjoy, you’re good. Okay. So what I want to ask you is what’s driving you to be so good with your discipline and with the engagement of everything that works so well? Because what we see is that people who have the biggest burning desire get the best results, so that when the going gets a little tough, and we’re faced with maybe wanting to have a cheat day or have cheats regularly at home from the pantry, those who want the outcome the most tend to skate past those pretty easy and continue to do the right things. What’s driving all this? What’s the fuel behind wanting the outcome?

Liz – Well, and I can compare it to yours because I’m far beyond this. But I remember you saying that you wanted to have children. Well, and what I want is I want to age well. I want to stay really active. I love to travel. I love to ski, ride my bike, hike. And I know I’m going to have to cut back on some of the. On those as I get older. I’m in my late 60s right now, but I just want to keep doing things outside. I see so many people around me, and it’s, it saddens me. My, a lot of friends who can’t do things anymore. They just can’t. And I know that with rheumatoid arthritis, I have. That’s like, it’s like an extra, an extra little hurdle, it’s a blip I have to get over every day. And so I feel as though, I really have to stick to this stuff if I want to enjoy my life to its fullest and it’s working and it just is because I don’t hesitate if somebody calls and says, we’re thinking about doing a, you know, going on a bike ride this a weekend bike ride to wherever, in a couple weeks. Do you want to go? I’m like, yeah, it doesn’t even, it’s just not even an issue to say no. And I’ve reached the point of having more time in my life. I’m not working anymore. And I want to get out there, and I have a lot to do, and I want to do it.

Clint – That comes across really well. I love it. I have a lot to do, and I want to do it. I love it, you know that feeling that comes through there? That’s your identity. It’s like, don’t take that from me. Condition, diagnosis. Do not take that from me. I have a lot to do, and I want to do it. It’s like you can feel that Sort of the power in that statement. Yeah.

Liz – Yes. And it feels really good. I’m so glad that I do have things that I want to do. I want to get outside, and I want to do stuff, and in the winter, I want to do stuff inside, but I want to move. I like moving and, um, I think that life has a lot to offer. I think I’m super lucky to have found this program, and also to, I think I’m very fortunate to have been diagnosed later in life, later on, late onset of RA. I think it’s very lucky to get it in my 60s and not unfortunately, like you did in your 30s, I think 30s, 20s, 30s.

Clint – Yeah. 31.

Liz – Yeah, and I was, I think I was, I’ve been very fortunate to have been active when I was diagnosed. And I believe that helped everything to work. I think it can always start. It can always start making everything work.

Clint – Yeah. And one thing else that isn’t related to your own mission, but something I want to ask you about is you also told me. I don’t know if you knew I was going to bring this up, but you wanted to help others, too. You want to help others, whether it be just by sharing your story today. but you have this desire to make aware what’s possible. And so can you talk about that with regards to what you’d like people to know who have this disease as well?

Liz – Yes. The thing that comes to mind the most, and I think this is along those lines is I know that exercise is very hard for a lot of people. And because, like we talked about earlier, they aren’t in the same place with their RA that I am, but I did go through that period where I had to push through that. And when, what I want to tell people is if you can, if you can ride a stationary bike for five minutes, you can ride it for a lot longer than five minutes. If you can walk for ten minutes, you can walk longer than that. And maybe that, you know, I’m hoping that that’s good advice. But it’s those are such those are simple things to do. And that’s what I found is if I could get on a bike and it didn’t hurt, just keep doing it. Just keep on doing it. Let’s see to Another thing is that I do. I hear a lot of people, and I hope this is along the lines of what you’re looking for.

Liz – I do hear a lot of people saying that their doctors don’t want. They don’t want them to bother trying hydroxychloroquine or Plaquenil. They don’t want them to bother with it because it’s not going to work. Let’s just skip right to the next thing. But why not try it? You know, as you know, you have to get rid of the fire at first. Somehow I got that from Doctor Thomas, you got to get rid of the fire first. And that’s what helped me get started is the hydroxychloroquine. And thank goodness it worked. It started working for me very quickly, like within a few weeks. And I feel bad when I hear people say, My doctor won’t let me do that. He says it won’t work. He wants me to go straight to the other. Why not try it? Why not try it and do the food and do the exercise at the same time? Maybe it’ll work, and then eventually cut back on it.

Clint – Yeah, that’s what we spoke about too, didn’t we? We talked about how the microbiome is one of the variables as to how all medications work, not just RA medications. If you’re taking something orally, then everything has to pass through the digestive tract. You’re microbiome is involved with the metabolism of these medications, and methotrexate, for example. And I didn’t go and review this study before this call, which I may actually go and review this study because it’s fascinating. They looked at a group of RA patients and their microbiome. And then they looked at methotrexate. Sorry, they were on methotrexate. They looked at their symptoms, and they tried to extrapolate how effective the methotrexate was based on the microbiome of each of the individuals in the study. And there was a significant correlation to those with a certain microbiome kind of mapping to the efficacy of the drug. And quite simply, a healthy microbiome helps for the methotrexate, in this example to work better. So if we’re getting healthier, we’re also becoming a better home for which the methotrexate can be effective. And so we get a win and a win. And I haven’t seen studies on this for hydroxychloroquine, but the principles are the same. The medication gets taken orally, and it’s going to interact with our gut microbiome and it’s going to influence the outcome. And so this is something that’s also fascinating that, as we get healthier and we optimize these fundamentals of our body, everything benefits everything.

Liz – Yeah. It, it’s just, it’s been an amazing journey so far. It really is with the food, the microbiome, because I believe it’s all working together.

Clint – Last question for you, Liz. Let’s say someone, I’m going to come up with a fictitious scenario. Let’s say a distant relative. You don’t know too much is going through a tough time. You haven’t met them before. They come to stay at your nice home. They’re in the woods, and they’ve got rheumatoid arthritis, and they know nothing about lifestyle strategies, and they’re going to stay with you for two months. What conversations would you have with them when they unpack their bags and sit down? And then what would you do to assist them to use lifestyle strategies to improve their situation whilst they’re under your roof?

Liz – I think, sorry, I have a little bug running around. What I would do first, first of all, I would think, okay, this is a perfect, perfect time for me to be able to show what works for me. And I would say, because I do have a cousin who has rheumatoid arthritis and we have spent time together.

Clint – Oh, is that right? Okay.

Liz – Yes.

Clint – Okay.

Liz – Time together. Just the two of us, since we were diagnosed about six months apart from each other. And I said to her, do you want to see what I eat? Do you want to see the way I eat? And, and then I went ahead, and I said, you know, I’m going out for a hike this morning, do you want to come with me? And it’s funny because she said no, but when I came back, she was out on a hike. And so I just believed that it rubs off that almost if I don’t think I can push and, and I won’t use my cousin as an example because she’s so wonderful and she’s working on it and it’s going well for her, but, I think this is the thing with the food is that people just can’t imagine doing this, but if they can see someone doing it, I think it’s all in setting the example. If they can see someone doing it and then what they’re able to do because of eating a certain way And because of the exercise that, oh, maybe I want to try that too.

Clint – Yeah. I thought of a very basic example, but I was reading a book one time and, and the son of the author, like, wouldn’t jump in the pool. And he’d tried all these professional play dollies classes, get in the pool, get in the pool, wouldn’t get in the pool. And then, instead of trying to force it through these private lessons, just took him to the pool, and all the kids jumped in the pool, and the kid just jumped in the pool. And he’s like, oh my gosh, all I needed to do was put him in a situation where his peers were doing what I want him to do. And that’s what you’re describing, isn’t it? If you see your peers doing something in a way that’s different but effective, you think, that’s me. I could do that too.

Liz – I think so. And another thing that I think is important for people to know who are diagnosed with RA, when I was first diagnosed, a person that I know who’s had RA for many years sat me down, and she said, you know, I, I, I have RA too. And I want you to know that you think you’re going to beat it, but you’re not. It’s going to get you. And that was the best thing anybody could have ever said to me, because I don’t believe that. I just don’t it could I think it can be there, but I think I can always be strong. I can work on being stronger than the RA and keep it at bay. And it’s like I needed to hear that negative, negative statement. And it was sad too. I hated that she felt that way. And I am living proof that it can. You can, you can get above it. You can get above it. And we’re always going to have. What is it? That little thing that they say, if you put your all your problems and put your problems in a jar and then with everybody else’s problems and they all put them in the jar, you start taking out others and looking at them, and you’ll take yours back, because other people have other things that going on too. And I just think with some daily work, even with some daily work and working it into working it into our lives as people with RA, that we can live with this and we can, we can beat it. We can because we see people on the meetings doing it. You.

Speaker 3 – Yeah.

Clint – People on our calls, the regular live calls, describing their improvements is very uplifting. And for those listening to the podcast who aren’t on those calls, they can listen to all the podcasts that we’ve put out with interviews with folks like yourself for years and years where they can sit and listen or go for a walk and put it through their iPad or whatever, iPod, whatever. Because hearing the stories, it’s uplifting. I’m sure that people listening to this conversation are now motivated from your story. And it only takes 1% of improvement per week. Or even if it worst case were per month, 1% improvement and like compound interest in the bank. It adds up, it adds up, it adds up.

Liz – So you have to pay attention to it adding up. You have to really focus. I’ve had to focus on that and pay attention to the positive changes and then rack them up. Oh, that’s a positive. That’s a positive. That’s a positive. That’s all good. It all adds up.

Clint – That’s it. We celebrate the wins wildly because then we’re acknowledging what we want to be paying attention to. We’re acknowledging there’s good in my world. Life is sending me gifts. Let’s be grateful for these gifts and let’s bring them to the surface. And it helps our nervous system, helps our outlook, and helps us implement.

Liz – Yeah.

Clint – Yeah.

Liz – There are benefits to this part of me. I feel as though I’m healthier even though I have RA. I feel that because of the whole microbiome and, more exercise and, um, the way I eat that and support that I’m getting is that I am stronger and happier than I was before I was diagnosed with RA. So that’s not a bad thing.

Clint – That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Let’s leave it there. Liz, thank you so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And thank you for bringing the vibrancy, the positivity, the smiles. And you survived a bug flying around and a dog with a stick in your mouth making you laugh. And we got it done. So thank you, Liz.

Liz – You are very welcome. Thank you for everything. Thank you.

Clint – Very welcome.