Indian cuisine proves to be particularly well suited to minimize the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis, and is in fact an influence for the Paddison Program. Today we talk with Anu about Indian food and the importance of discipline in following the Program.
We discuss in this interview:
- Anu’s great results with the Paddison Program, and how discipline is key
- The power of diet, exercise and mindset
- The different flavors of Indian cuisine, and adapting the Paddison Program to them
- Discovering local greens
- Anu’s recipes on Instagram
- The effects of stress on RA symptoms
- Finding support with other people
Clint – Here we go again with another wonderful success story on rheumatoid arthritis minimisation. My guest today is Anu and she’s in South India. She’s got a journey that spans about 2 to 3 years with rheumatoid arthritis thus far. She was diagnosed during the pandemic in 2020, and has a story to tell us and insights to share. So Anu, thank you for joining us on the Rheumatoid Solutions Podcast.
Anu – Thank you for having me. I have watched each and every one of your podcasts and I never thought, in the back of my mind I always wanted to be. But you asked me twice before, I was a bit shy then. So finally I’ve gotten up the courage to do this, and I’m really happy to be here.
Clint – Well, thank you. Yes. I have asked you a few times and you’ve got an interesting case study with rheumatoid, because it seems like you have tremendous control over your symptoms depending on how much discipline you apply. So we’re going to look at that in a moment. We’re going to talk about how stress and diet impacts you and how you have this, as I said power over your condition if you keep those aligned. We’re going to talk about your transformation and Indian cuisine and how you make delicious Indian food, fermented Indian foods. We’re going to talk about cooking for your family and also for yourself and making different foods. And interestingly, we’ll also touch upon how rheumatoid has, in a way, made your life better, we’re going to talk about that. But first of all, give us the before and after. How severe were you? What was happening? And then how are you today?
Anu – So I was diagnosed in March 2020, just during the lockdown. And I had symptoms before that, and I had seen the doctor, but they said, it’s fine. But anyway, I got the test done and it was positive, but I couldn’t meet with the doctor because of the pandemic, they weren’t seeing patients. Anyway, I managed to get a consultation and got the tests and everything was positive. But I must add, I found your program on a comment on YouTube, and I looked it up and I started reading, watching the podcast. So by the time I met the doctor and he shared this devastating news, I was not that shocked because I knew that there was a way out. So I think I wasn’t as upset as my husband was, I was quite calm and confident because I knew that there was a way around this. I think I joined your program in April 2020, but I hadn’t started following the program until June because certain personal reasons. So June, I started following your program to the T, and I was pretty bad. I couldn’t go into the toilet, I was hobbling. I had to come down the stairs one at a time, it was just so painful. And I had to wait hours after waking up, with hot water and things like that, just loosen my joints, but I was active.
Anu – Once I started the diet, slowly, gradually, I started seeing changes. I had also started on methotrexate and had hydroxychloroquine. It was in June, but by September, when I went for my next checkup, my ESR and CRP had come drastically down. The Doctor was very happy with my progress. But then by the next month I had to stop hydroxychloroquine after four months because I had started developing a reaction to it and then I was only on methotrexate. Anyway, from there I just started improving, it was just a just trajectory upward. I started doing really well, I started enjoying the food. It was difficult following the program, the cleanse, and the reintroduction but I started doing pretty well. By 2021, I think mid-2021 I was doing fantastic and I started having a reaction to methotrexate and had to come down to five. I had to even stop it, and I was doing quite well. I was so happy, I thought, Oh, I’ve gotten rid of methotrexate. But discipline that’s Where my problem lies. So I started eating all kinds of food, not junk food, not dairy, no dairy, no sugar, but, you know, the normal of oily food. And I paid a price for it and I had to go back on methotrexate. But still, it was at the lowest dose, according to my doctor. Unfortunately, by November 2021 I have to go back to work, there’s a lot of stress. But I never went beyond 10mg of methotrexate, and my doctor says, I have the disease and very mild form. He doesn’t know that I did the diet, exercise, and all the things I do. So he thinks I’m like, okay, you know, I just have the disease. But I know reading other stories that it wasn’t really mild, I did have it quite badly. And so, yes, my journey is good so far, I know that if I stick to the Paddison Program and if I do my exercise, take care of my mental wellbeing, I can 100% come off the drugs. But that’s not my intention, I will do it in a stone manner. But I’m doing pretty well and I know I’ve got it under control as long as I do these things. So you had asked me, as I mentioned earlier, to come on the podcast and I was like, no, I want to go on a trek and things like that. I went on 3 treks, and one of the checks was a bit difficult climbing a mountain and stuff that I, but I think I kept up with the youngest members and in fact most of the other younger members were behind me and I was so happy that I could do all these things. So that’s my journey so far. Last month I did my test, my bloodwork is all normal and I’m doing quite well. Thank you. And I’m so glad that I had found you and your program.
Clint – You’re very humble because you know you were going through so much when you were with the symptoms initially. And now you say that as long as you do the right things, the things that we talk about on the Paddison Program, you’re actually completely symptom free. And you told me just before we hit record that sometimes you forget that you even have the disease. Is that correct?
Anu – Yeah, when I’m doing well, it’s like, just jump out of bed and go and do all the things and I tend to forget. So I don’t even check the forum for months. If like, if I haven’t looked at me because I’m feeling completely healthy, I find I’m like, on my feet. I love gardening, I love cooking, so sometimes from 8 to 10 and sometimes I’m on my feet, maybe half an hour I get to sit and I and by ten at night, I’m not even tired. Frankly, I keep telling everyone that you ask me to cook seven more dishes I’ll do it. I just don’t do diets, like I think this Sunday I made around seven dishes for myself and I just was in between running and doing all kinds of other things. So the diet is just fantastic. Who thought that I would need rheumatoid to discover that there is a healthy way of living where you don’t feel tired. Like if I eat heavy, normal food, I feel tired and I feel just sluggish, and it’s not good at all. I just love what I cook, and this new way of life, exercise, and mindset. I wish I didn’t have to be so sorry, but. But I don’t know the life path has taken me, and I think it was for my wellbeing.
Clint – Let’s explore that a little bit more. You mentioned that the food, which we’ll talk about in a moment, like the type of foods that you like to cook and so on. This is an awkward question, but, if there were some good things to come out of this disease, what would that list look like for you?
Anu – It’s just filled with wonderful things. If you want to see a list before and after the before one, I’ll tear it up and throw it into shreds. You know, I want to look on what I was focusing on before. I was a workaholic type, like many others, was obsessed with work. And hardly took time for my health and things like that. But now I’m I knew I mean, I had a gut feeling always that there were things wrong with my gut, that my stomach, my stomach bugs. I knew I knew what, but I didn’t do anything about it. I always feel like RA came as a kind of a warning sign, you know, get things on track. So the list of things that I would do is, of course, food that is wholefood plant-based, I’m all for that. Second thing was exercise, I never paid attention to exercise. And now I don’t like a day without exercise, I just do it no matter what. Because of the way it makes my body feel. And the third thing is mindset. I’m not very regular with meditation and gratitude, but I try to make it a part of my day every day. I do love yoga as well, I’m not regular with it, but I do yoga. And doing things I love that make me happy, and I’m taking care of myself. These things really bring me a lot of joy. And also, maybe doing things that make you cross the limits you set for yourself and push you beyond your boundaries. So for me, going on treks and traveling solo, I mean, not all over the group, but enough goes on my own without the comfort of a car and things like that. Especially with RA, it’s not easy because food is also not easy. So pushing my boundaries is something that I like to do like physical comfort, beyond that where I can push my limits. I find that also every month doing something like that, I find that challenging and it gives me fresh purpose.
Clint – I love it. As you were speaking about these things, the mindset, the yoga, the food, the exercise. I’m thinking about the variations that you’re doing, and it has occurred to me for the first time that so much of our program is sort of Indian-influenced, the food is very Indian-influenced. There’s rice, there’s lentils, there’s spices and herbs all this. And then the format of exercise that one of them that works really well for folks is yoga of course and it originated or roots within India. And so we’ve got that and then the mindfulness, the spirituality, which is very, very, very associated with the Indian lifestyle. And so it’s very, very Indian sort of aligned. It’s interesting that it took a Westerners outside influence to bring you back home again, you know.
Anu – Absolutely, Clint. I’ve always been interested in yoga and Indian philosophy and things like that. But of course, I was just busy being a workaholic. Until I got this wake up call in the form of RA unfortunately. But. But I think really good things have come out of this journey, this new path that life has taken me on.
Clint – Let’s talk about your foods. You have started an Instagram account and it’s called gut feeling, so people can follow you on Instagram. Now, just to be clear, that’s gutt_feeling. You’ve started to populate that with some pictures of your foods. Let’s talk about Indian cuisine. What sort of foods do you make? Which ones are you passionate about and what recipe tips and cooking tips can you give us all?
Anu – So when I started the program, it was all about Buckwheat, Amaranth and these are all things I’d never even heard about. Okay. We do Amaranth with these beliefs. Yeah, but not the seeds. I didn’t even know about all these things. So anyway, of course, initially I followed your program and things like that, but we’re used to a lot of spicy food, which a palate is used to that kind of food. Right. So the bland food was starting to get to me, and I was starting to crave normal Indian food. And then I started realizing that, okay, I could modify these recipes. So I started experimenting. And also, Dr. Gregor recommends eating spices because they have a lot of polyphenols and antioxidant qualities and things that. So I was avoiding spices, actually. And I realized, well, these are good for me, so why not explore? And I started to search for recipes online. And I discovered that, like I told you before, like Indian food is like an umbrella term. There isn’t something Indian food as such it’s like each state has its own cuisine. And within each state there is so much variation in even a single dish like a Dahl. So it would be made in different places. I have a different way of making it and things like that and everything is yum. So everything is absolutely even Khichdi. I recently came across an article that there are more than 20 or 30 types around India. I haven’t made a lot of them. See, I know Indian cooking a lot involves a lot of ghee and a lot of oil. And of course, those are not friendly at all, I have to modify that. So right now I do a lot of research into recipes from around India, and I modify them so that I cook it completely without oil. And it’s just easier for me and delicious. And I can’t stop marveling at how much I’ve missed all my life because I was so focused on the fish, curry and the meat and know that I didn’t like vegetables, but. And the salads as Indians, we don’t eat much salads. You know, it’s just a little bit of cucumber, carrots and maybe radish or things like that. We really don’t have the habit of eating a lot of Salads.
Anu – In this process, another wonderful thing I’ve discovered is, you know, the local greens, the native greens, you know, the traditional food of India, and that’s something I’m really focusing a lot on. They are just weeds, rather, but they have medicinal value. And so I grow a lot of them in my backyard. It’s not like a regular garden, it’s like a masterpiece. But they all have a purpose. So I do a lot of research into that. So what are the greens that have medicinal value and what our ancestors used? Because I think during this journey I discovered the importance of the microbiome and how people traditionally eat and how that’s so important to your gut bacteria. I think we’ve all come away from our traditional foods, especially in India, because we have such a. It’s like a treasure trove of dishes that we’ve forgotten about because now our focus is like the standard American diet, pizza, burgers and things like that. And it’s just about meat and egg and fish every day, so we are just forgetting. But there is a revival coming up throughout India, and I’m so glad for that because I learned so much from it. So I do make a lot of interesting things out of these things.
Clint – I know that you’ve left your work so that you can focus on your health and you’ve also left your work because you were getting a lot of stress from that. And we’ll talk about that in a moment. But would you consider it possible to maybe create a recipe book for us that we could share within our community, all traditional Indian cuisine with no oil and no ghee?
Anu – Sure Clint. All my recipes are posted on Instagram. I have videos. It’s just basically just nothing fancy because I like cooking to be quick and fast. You know, nothing Like I wouldn’t find that a nice setting or something it’s just basic, basic instruction. So all my recipes are on my Instagram page, but I would definitely love to create a cookbook. I just think the learning is so vast, every day I discover something new. And also I’m learning to ferment because kombucha and Keifer and things are not that easily doable. I found out Indians have so many fermented recipes and that is equally yummy and so easy to make. So I do a lot of fermenting as well. So eating traditional food and discovering cuisines from India. Definitely. Why not? I can definitely make a cookbook.
Clint – Yes. And I’m on your page right now having a look at that. And you’ve got reels, which is great. So Instagram reels that you’re using to actually show people how to make the foods, which is awesome. Yes. So to do the recipe book, it’s easier than you might think when you’ve put the finished product together before you eat it. Just put the pictures, take some finished pictures under some nice lighting and a nice benchtop with a good camera, and then you just have to jot down all the ingredients and then and then step by step instructions of what to do. If you were to put all that in a text format, I can create the book for you. So we could do it. You I just need pictures, ingredients and step by step and I can have it graphic design and put together for you. Can we do that?
Anu – I’d love to. You given me some purpose.
Clint – Okay. Let’s do it. This is your new job. You’ve quit your other job. What sort of work were you involved with? Was it sort of project management or was it office work? I mean, what were you doing in the past?
Anu – I was in a school. I was the head of a school.
Clint – Ahead of the school. You were the principal?
Anu – Yes.
Clint – Well. Okay, So a lot of responsibility. A lot of stress, huh?
Anu – I love my job, but I think RA made me realize that there’s more to life than just being a workaholic.
Clint – Sure, sure, sure, sure. And in what ways did you notice stress impacting symptoms and how quick was it? Were you able to, for example, see that if you had a bad day, that you had more symptoms the next day or was it more a bad week would lead to symptoms? Did you ever get a feeling for it?
Anu – Well, actually, now it’s around three years since I was diagnosed and most of the time was working from home because of the pandemic. And I found that I was doing quite well on the diet, and I was on low-dose methotrexate, according to my doctor, when I asked him about tapering it off. It’s like you’re on the lowest dose. If you want to even pick up these things. So I was actually on the lowest dose. And I know when I’m on the diet and I’m doing a pick up all those things and an exercise mindset, I do quite well. But once, once I had to return to work. I didn’t particularly have bad days, but it is stressful because you are in charge of the safety of so many kids and that’s always a stress that plays on your mind, you know? So it’s not obvious. It’s kind of insidious and it’s just, you know, it can just start started to worsen my symptoms gradually because I was taking on so much stress. The stress of waking up early and cooking and getting all my food and things like that. It was also physically tiring because suddenly this big change, and then I would end up eating normal Indian vegetarian food for comfort which again was in my symptoms really badly. So and then I realized that, okay, this can go on because I need to take care of myself and make my health a priority. So I quit my job last year. Definitely the stress it started building up. It wasn’t a weekly thing or a daily thing, but it was ongoing. And that had a very bad effect on my symptoms.
Clint – Let me recap. So you’ve noticed a very distinct relationship between stress and inflammation, a very distinct relationship between eating, non Paddison Program, even vegetarian foods. You have to stick with the oil-free, the dairy-free and 100% Whole Foods. And if you do that with lots of the Indian spices that you use and the way you prepare your foods and you’re exercising, you can remain symptom-free on only 7.5 milligrams a week of methotrexate. Which is phenomenal because at one point your doctor said you’re going to look at biologic drugs and now you’re on a tiny dose of methotrexate and symptom-free, it’s phenomenal. And you’ve identified lots of benefits from having the disease in terms of the discovery of a passion for traditional Indian foods and also a discovery of the importance of exercise, mindset, gratitude, and so on. You’re now free of work and you’re focused on your health, and we’ve just decided that we’re going to create an Indian Paddison Program cooking book, and I’m totally excited about that. So is there anything that you’d like to share that we haven’t covered yet that you think would be really important to want to get across to listeners?
Anu – Um, first of all, Clint, I’m so glad I found your program in April 2020, because that gave me the courage and the confidence. I don’t know if I could have gone through this alone, You know, I would have, I don’t know, taken a big toll on me, and probably I’d be on biologics by now, I’m 100% sure of that. Not that I have anything against biologics, I’m sure medication is always helpful. In fact, I am glad that I have this medication and I’m looking at tapering off this year hopefully. I don’t know how my rheumatologist will support me with that because he’s like, you’re on the lowest just let it be.
Clint – Oh, I was just saying how well you’ve done. And is there anything else that you’d like to share?
Anu – I think having goals is good for yourself. And I think having the forum, even though I’m not so regular, I love to read other stories. And also one of the things I want to mention is during my darkest times in the night when I couldn’t sleep because of the pain, I would listen to your podcast, which just kept giving me hope that I can do it, that I need to stick to the food. And I’m so thankful to all the people who come on to your podcast because each of them has helped me in my journey. That’s why when I even though you asked me before, I was really shy about it and I thought, no, this is my way of giving back so I might be able to help someone. I must pass forward the help that I received from all of your guests, the stories have been so motivating. So anything extra that I do is that I think find some purpose and passion so that it takes your mind away from RA all the time.
Anu – Of course, if you’re working, you’re busy and it takes up a lot of your time but once I quit, I found that I needed to find something else that I’m passionate about. And learning more about health and food is my passion and also keeps me going. And I always think that you should connect with those who have RA, I think that’s really helpful. I’ve made a lot of good friends on your forum and outside through you, some of your members when they post, so I found a lot of good friends that I can share my, ups and downs with. So I would suggest is definitely look into joining your program because whether you are active or not, it’s really helpful, especially because you put in a lot of new information, which I don’t know and not I would have access to, you know, whatever it may be and, you know, the leaky gut microbiome and all these kind of things. It’s having access to information and updated information is so important. And now with that addition, I think that’s been really helpful.
Clint – So wonderful. Thank you. And so if people are interested to to connect with Anu inside Rheumatoid Support, which is our support forum, just reach out to us, email us info@RheumatoidSolutions.com and we will connect you and show you how you can get started in the community that has seen over 2000 to 3000 people over the years go through just the support forum aspect of the program. That subset of people get personal coaching from myself and Carl Reader and a bunch of others, Anaya, and Caroline, and now I’m running into trouble. I’m going to not be able to mention everyone at the same time. Ellen Exactly. And a whole bunch of people with different expertise. Lori, who’s tremendous at cooking food as well. And so you get access to people who are experts in certain areas and communicate and make friends and go through this journey and troubleshoot together to get the best possible outcome. So if you’ve liked this episode, please go on to iTunes and give us a five-star review for our podcast. Because as Anu says, if we can, help other people by getting them this information, then that’s great. There are so many podcasts out there, it’s hard to become noticed. So if you could support us, hit like and subscribe on YouTube. Thank you so much Anu, it’s been absolutely wonderful to chat with you, and let’s make an Indian Cuisine cookbook together.
Anu – Absolutely. Clint, Thank you for having me, it was wonderful talking to you and it just feels surreal doing this. I never thought I would do it, but yeah, I’m glad I did it. And thank you so much for all that you do, you are a real motivation.
Clint – That’s beautiful. Thank you Anu.
Anu – Thank you.
