Juvenile idiopathic arthritis (JIA) is a young person’s version of RA, and is often treated with the same interventions, which leads to a lifetime of treatments: today Stanka and her daughter Ella tell us about how they managed to reverse JIA symptoms by applying a modified version of the Paddison Program.

We discuss in this interview:

• How Ella completely reversed Juvenile Idiopathic Arthritis (JIA) symptoms without Rheumatology medications
• The first approach with a rheumatologist who strictly adhered to pharmaceutical treaments
• The connection between COVID and the onset of RA symptoms
• Adapting the Paddison Program to young children
• How happiness can help
• Targeting joint health through movement
• Peptides
• The crucial role of parents

Clint – Happy stories are amazing to share, especially when they are about children. Something that really moves me is when children develop idiopathic arthritis, juvenile idiopathic arthritis, a young person’s version of rheumatoid because to get it at a very young age obviously sets them up for a lifetime of management of this condition. And it is treated quite often with the same sort of interventions pharmaceutically as the adult rheumatoid arthritis. Well, today I am really, really excited to bring to this episode a mother and daughter combination who are superstars. They’re based in Slovakia, and in 2016 Stanka’s daughter Ella developed juvenile idiopathic arthritis. And today we are going to hear from her and her mum about the journey that they have been through, and I can assure you it is a very, very happy ending. So we are going to go through that now with Stanka mum and also Ella daughter. But Ella’s English is so she’s learning it at school. She’s only nine years old and her mum is here to do most of the conversation with us. But Ella wanted to join because she is curious and wants to be part of this. After all, it is her story. So Stanka and Ella, thank you for joining me.

Stanka and Ella – Thank you for meeting us.

Clint – How are you Ella?

Stanka and Ella – Thank you so much. I think she’s fine.

Clint – She’s fine.

Stanka and Ella – Yeah, a little bit embarrassed.

Clint – I understand. I’ve got an eight-year-old about to turn nine, and it’s a little different when you’re talking to big people over the Internet and so forth. Stanka, you’ve been through a lot. I mean, when parents approach me and they say they have a child with JIA, 2 things happened. First of all, I think, oh, my, like, my heart goes out to them, and second of all, I think so much work, just so much work needs to go into this it becomes all-consuming. The family has to be completely almost orbiting around the health of the child, there are the medical appointments, and because the child is young, they might not want to eat certain foods that are as healthy as the other choices that the kids are having. They don’t understand the connections. And so it’s a huge challenge. How much has this consumed you since the diagnosis? Before we get into the details.

Stanka and Ella – For okay, first of all, I lost maybe 15 kilograms and I’m I don’t know if you can see it, but I’m really thin person, really high and really thin. So 15 kilograms, everybody kept asking me if I have cancer or something. It was really, really hard for me and difficult because my husband wasn’t here very much. So I was alone with my parents, they were a big help to me. We were living with them, but for maybe six or seven months we were only in the house. In the house, nowhere to go because Ella didn’t want to go. It was her joint pain, she was in pain and she was sad and no energy. So we were only sitting on the couch and she was sad. And it was really bad because I was doing some exercises with her joints and with her knees, and it was really painful. And she was crying and my heart was crying with her. But I can’t cry because I have to keep strong as a mother. The diet was not so bad because she was three years old and we were eating pretty good also before that, vegetables and fruits and so on. Just the gluten and the milk were the problem because she was used to eat cheese and she really, really loved cheese and, you know, bread and these things and eggs. I was a vegan at the time, but she wasn’t vegan, but she never eat meat. She didn’t like to eat meat at the time. So the diet was not much of a problem, the problem was that she reacted to almost everything, really to almost everything. So our diet was very restricted.

Clint – So even before we started working together, even before you contacted us and let me know of the situation, she was already on a restricted diet because of food sensitivities.

Stanka and Ella – Yes, we tried SCD diet and paleo, everything that you can imagine, because I was desperate and nothing helped. And then I googled you and this was the saviour for us, this was the biggest help.

Clint – Now so that people can get a glimpse of where we’re going with her transformation. I didn’t ask you right away, but let’s just give us this sort of before and after status. Tell us in a really, really short clip how much she was affected and then compare that to how she is today.

Stanka and Ella – Yes. So her energy was completely down, she was pale and she was really hot, she always cried. She cried all day long, and her affected joints were her right knee and her left ankle, they were swollen. So there was pain and there was swelling. So this was her main problem.

Clint – How is she now? Like when she got up this morning. Does she have morning stiffness? Does she have inflammation in that knee and ankle?

Stanka and Ella – Nothing like this. She’s completely healthy.

Clint – What’s it feel like to be able to say that?

Stanka and Ella – Well, I am always a little bit afraid to say these words because the fright stay in my heart. I’m always afraid that something will come back.

Clint – Yes, that’s right. You’re happy and you have you are grounded in the knowledge that it’s an autoimmune condition and that if we do the wrong things, we can trigger inflammation again. Okay. So is she playing sport? Is she eating more without the food sensitivities now? Is she expanding her diet? Has she got great friends? Is she saying positive things?

Stanka and Ella – So this is a little bit complicated and long question. Okay. So she was doing ballet, she was a ballet dancer. I was really surprised because of her joints, but she has great mobility. No problem with her joints. So she was a ballet dancer for two years. But now she’s an artist, she’s an artist from birth. So now no sport, only running and playing with kids outside and making silly things. Because she’s a funny child. She’s very, very funny and very good to be with. So no sports at all, but only running and doing arts. She can paint very well and she has great friends in school, here not too many, but a pair of good friends. And sometimes she’s very sad, mainly because of the diet, because nobody, nobody understands why she’s not eating chocolates and sweets and so on, on the birthday parties. And we always are taking our own food. So this is the main concern of her that we are eating differently. And sometimes she cries and tell me, Mommy, why are we eating like this? I want to be normal, but this can be expected and.

Clint – And other than the frustration sometimes with the diet and I can tell her that it’s similar for us adults as well, eating restricted way. I was out just then and before this interview and took the kids and sometimes I’ll let the kids have some French fries when we’re out. But, I’m looking at those things I used to enjoy eating those things. Those fries look good. And I can apply with that adult kind of experience, and I can reflect on the direct impact that those sort of foods had on me. But as a child, you’re relying on the trust of your mom or your dad to, tell you and you can’t remember that connection. So it is difficult, and Ella, as you get bigger, you’ll start to maybe, I don’t know, maybe start to get used to it a little bit more and miss the other foods a little bit less. But it will always be a challenge, let’s not make light of it. This is where some people want it. Like many adults will walk into the rheumatologist and say, give me the very best drugs you possibly can. I don’t care what the side effects are because I love eating a Western diet, I just love ice cream or whatever. And so the three of us here in this little conversation, we are in a different boat where we’re making choices to optimize our health so that we are able to control symptoms. And it has its challenges, doesn’t it?

Stanka and Ella – Yes. The funny thing is that she healed me. I was very sick. My God was really I had leaky gut, I didn’t know about it, but my stomach was always hurting and I was too skinny and I was not well, I had allergies and asthma and something like this. Everything you can imagine. And I started to eat like Ella. And I’m healthy now, so that’s really great.

Clint – And so you were vegan, but you still had these issues, so you were eating it, eating some processed vegan?

Stanka and Ella – Yeah, I was eating really much processed foods at that time. And I remember you asked if her diet is restricted, like right now. No, she’s eating pretty normal. We can eat in the restaurant where they use oil, no problem for her. We are eating vegan, but she tasted meat maybe three times because she really wanted to. And I was thinking that maybe it is good for her to try and maybe she will tell me that, okay, I don’t want it. And this is the case. She she doesn’t want to eat meat, so that’s okay. But the effect was okay nothing happened. So she’s eating pretty normal right now, vegan, but pretty normal. I’m not cooking with oil at home, but sometimes when we eat in the restaurant, and she’s okay.

Clint – So I just want to, like, remind our audience who might be maybe aren’t seeing the monumental transformation that has happened with her and the degree of rarity of which this happens. I’m curious to hear what was recommended to her specifically by the rheumatologist when she first presented with this condition and what the rheumatologist says now.

Stanka and Ella – So the first thing was to use some anti-inflammatory drugs. And then if after a week it is not better then to inject corticosteroids to her joints under anesthesia, which was really frightening for me. And then if this does do not help next is methotrexate. So tat was the suggestion. I was not sure about this because he told us that there is maybe 40% chance that it will help, and it was not enough for me to put her under anesthesia and give her these drugs that really affect her whole body. So I was keeping to ask like, her gut is not healthy, can this be the reason why her stomach is always in pain from since birth? She’s crying that her belly hurts. can this be the reason? And he always said to me, no she has no celiac disease, her gut is healthy. During that time, I already knew very much about gut health, and I knew that it can be the reason. So I told him that, sorry, can I have maybe two or three months to try something else? Herbs and diet? And he said, no, if you do not want to give her this treatment that I suggested, go away and never come back. So this was our rheumatologist and we tried another, but it was always the same.

Clint – So you haven’t taken her to a rheumatologist in several years?

Stanka and Ella – No. We are just going to our pediatrician, who is just perfect. And she told us, okay, she’s growing, she’s gaining weight, she’s healthy, her blood tests are completely perfect. So I don’t know what to tell you. she’s healthy, So keep going. So we have this perfect pediatrician with us.

Clint – Good. Good. Yes. Some rheumatologists can be like that and some can be like the one that I’ve had for 17 years, which has always been accommodating to my bizarre, requests of pausing this and testing this and everything. So, if you find the right one, then it can be much more smooth. That’s not to go so far as to say that they understand the science between diet and inflammation. But look, we do our best with this show to share as much of that as we can so that as patients, we know that it exists and we know what to do and let the doctor do the great work that they can around the pharmaceuticals, the imaging, the bloodwork, all of the analytical work. So with that, I did mention it at the top of the show because you told me just before we started that she’d had a setback with COVID. Now, this is happening a lot to adults as well. We’re seeing the COVID disease causing some symptoms to reignite in RA patients. What did you do when this happened? How long did it take for her to recover and was it a complete recovery?

Stanka and Ella – Okay, so her COVID started with Ella keep saying, Oh, my knee hurts, Mommy, my knee hurts. And she’s telling me something. Sometimes that knee hurts, but it is only because her knee is not in the best position. After the swelling went down, her knee stayed in a not perfect position, and sometimes when she’s running, it is affected. So sometimes it hurts, but she’s doing some exercises for it and she’s getting better and better each day. So I thought maybe it is only because she was playing with her friends, but now it was COVID and it hit her pretty hard. Fevers and it really affected her gut and stomach it was really bad. She was vomiting and maybe for a month she was not feeling good so this was really bad. And it stayed with her for a month, but the knee stopped hurting, maybe after a week. And then we made a complete blood test with her pediatrician. She suggested it and everything was completely perfect. She said she never, never have seen this perfect blood test in a child, but her ANA antibodies were high again and they were low before COVID. Then we had COVID again in December, so so now it is high again. So I hope it will go down.

Clint – Hmm. Yes, it’s one additional variable that we all have to defend against, isn’t it? So it’ll be interesting to see whether or not those antibodies slowly drop back down again with time. And it’s good that she’s physically active. What is the research I’ve done on COVID? The most or one of impactful aspect of developing COVID is that it significantly increases oxidative stress, and oxidative stress is something that’s really associated with RA symptoms. So the solution for getting oxidative stress back under control is for healthy people to become more physically fit and active. The process of exercise creates a very, very micro oxidative load on the body, and the body then through adaptation develops more intracellular antioxidants, which are the ones that we need to combat oxidative stress. As we become fitter and fitter we can lower our oxidative stress. But it’s a balance because when you’re lethargic and you’ve got maybe even long term COVID symptoms, exercise, it’s not something that’s high on your priority list, but it is, in my view, one of the most powerful ways to get out of that situation. We just need to do baby steps, as Dr. Klapper says, just walk to the next tree on each day. And we just want to take that and build and build and build and build and build to become fit again.

Clint – So it’s good that she’s running and active and hopefully we’ll see those numbers come back down. Now, we have completely omitted talking about yet what she actually did. And if anyone’s watching this and it’s the first podcast of mine they’ve ever watched, they’d be like, Why the heck haven’t they told us what she actually did? Right. And I apologize if this is your first time watching these episodes. In a way, it’s my bad because it’s kind of assumed we have a program that was evolved under the name the Paddison Program, and it’s been put under an umbrella now called Rheumatoid Solutions System because it’s far more than a diet. But the diet is really important. Let’s talk about what she ate because it wasn’t designed for children. You and I had this conversation back when she was first diagnosed. How did you modify it? What were the ups and downs, the challenges, particularly in case other parents with a child are in the same position right now and they want to know everything? Tell us, please.

Stanka and Ella – Yeah, of course. I want to help anybody that needs it. Some parents here in Slovakia search for my name. And I don’t know where they know from that I have Ally and we came through this path, but they contacted me and I was able to help their children. We have we have three Slovakian children without medication, only with your program. So it’s really a pity that you don’t have a book or something that we can translate into the Slovak language because I was so desperate to help these children and it really worked. We were just speaking so. So what Ella was reacting to almost everything you had in your program. So it was really, really difficult. We were on Quinoa, it was the main dish for us. Then salads, only green leaves beet, this was our main dish, and broccoli, zucchini, cucumber, carrots, and spinach. She could eat also apples and bananas and hemp seeds, but maybe nothing else. The first month we were only on this.

Stanka and Ella – When she eats potatoes, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, amaranth, and buckwheat, she really felt hot after it and want to take off her clothes when she ate buckwheat. We were drinking green smoothies every day and I always try to give there a little bit of celery because she didn’t really like it, but always apple, celery, and cucumber every day. And I think this really helped her. And the pretty interesting thing was that I could give her this diet and everything, and it stopped being worse from the day one of your program, no other joints were affected. That was pretty awesome because until before everything was worse and worse and worse every day, and now it stopped. But until one pretty wise lady told me, to keep her happy, keep her happy, do anything to keep her happy, she was not doing completely better. So I started to keep her happy. We were going out, we were running, we are playing, we bought a little swimming pool that you put your living room. It has many plastic balls, and she was playing with it and she was so happy. I have one photo of her in these balls, plastic balls, colorful, and she was so happy. Then it started to go better from day to day, her joints started to be better and she was taking enzymes. I really saw the difference when she was taking enzymes before every big meal. She had Probiotics, but only lactobacillus nothing else. Because some probiotic probiotics made her worse.

Clint – Hmm. It’s good that she was able to eat some of that hemp seeds to go along with the other foods that you mentioned because there wasn’t a lot of calories in there. And even quinoa was fairly calorie sparse, and so she would have had to eat quite a lot of foods and great that she could eat the bananas. There’s a little bit of fat in bananas. There’s a little bit of starch, enough energy coming through if you eat a lot of the quinoa and then the hemp seeds provide a little bump as well. But, you know, it’s great that she could have the smoothies but yeah that would have been tough. Is this why also you lost quite a lot of weight at that time, too? Because if you were only eating those foods, too, as an adult, that’s probably not meeting enough calorie requirement.

Stanka and Ella – It was definitely one of the reason, but the main reason was the stress. I was so stressed, I didn’t have any appetite. I wanted just her to be good and healthy. I was stressed too stressed.

Clint – I know. I remember, you and I have communicated over the years multiple times before you began, which I always tell JIA parents, this is not an out of the box under 18 program. This is an over 18 program because of all the things we mentioned earlier about, just compliance, interest, and understanding, it’s just there’s so many different reasons why. And yeah, it’s it always requires a modification approach. And interviews like this we’ve collected because we’ve had some others over the years little boy called Cole. He’s been a superstar over the years him, there are some others as well. And so these collections we put together so when parents contact us, what I say to parents with a child with inflammation is watch these interviews. Here is the adult version, make sure they eat their calorie requirements each day and make their plan more diverse and easier for the child based on the collection of knowledge of the interviews, the adult version, and those guidelines and consult with your rheumatologist. We don’t want any people who are far less sort of intelligent than yourself and your family, just thinking that people can live off those foods forever or thinking that they can throw away their medications, it’s not like that at all. A lot of really commonsense care and medical observation needs to go into this so that’s that’s important. This is why we put these interviews together, and I’m grateful for you to share so that others can learn.

Stanka and Ella – Correct.

Clint – Yeah. So when she started to get some pain reduction, did she then start to spend less time wanting to be on the couch, and with the happiness that you were adding to her life, did she then become more physically active and how did that evolve?

Stanka and Ella – YWith a pain reduction came some walks outside. We have a really pretty park right here in our village. So she started to go out and it was so nice for me after six months at home. So, yes, it was a big change, she wanted some friends but she didn’t have any at the time. So we were going around our village and we went trying to find friends to play like a normal child. And we found such great friends that they understood what we are doing and they always prepared her some vegetables and fruits and so that was so nice. At that time, she started to be a ballet dancer even though she had one joint that was not perfect at the time.

Clint – And did the ballet aggravate the joint?

Stanka and Ella – The mobility was definitely better after that. But the joint stayed okay because of the ballet.

Clint – I think that’s a really important point for people to hear, and I didn’t know the answer before. I just guess that that would be the case because generally adults are far more concerned about stirring up their joints and they use that as a strong justification for doing maybe less exercise than what would be helpful. And what the science shows that everyone benefits when they exercise more and that it’s crucial for joint health. Because whilst the source of the problem is coming from the gut, the joints are being affected. We must target the joint health directly through movement.

Stanka and Ella – Yeah, we are practicing with the joints, exercising with the joints every day, maybe six times a day. I was doing some exercises and it really helped tremendously.

Clint – What else would you like to share from this experience that you feel would benefit others with a child with inflammatory arthritis?

Stanka and Ella – Definitely one thing. It was very difficult because my husband didn’t want to change his diet, he really eats a lot of meat and so it was difficult. For Ella, this was a really big problem because I changed my diet but she saw her Daddy eating something else, and she kept asking me why. So I really want to tell other parents, please, please change your diet because of your child, maybe only for a few months, but do it for your child. Really, it is so important to the child will be more secure and really she or he will know, okay, Daddy and Mommy are doing it with me it will be fun, we are cooking and so on. So this is very important I think. And don’t be afraid and don’t forget about yourselves, because when I was stressed, Ella was stressed too. So do some meditation or anything, and try to stay calm and happy for your child. Don’t be afraid to eat something else, and I keep saying to Ella that we eat like people are supposed to eat, we are eating the right way. So you are doing it for yourself and for your future. And she is intelligent, so it’s okay in our family. But I can imagine that for another child it can be pretty challenging when someone was used to eating chips, hamburgers, and hot dogs, and something like that. But I keep telling the child that it is good and it can prevent some illnesses in his or her future.

Clint – It’s very, very wise words, and it will remain a challenge until eventually she kind of gets to the age where she can say, I got this, yep mum, I understand. And as she’s old enough to look at some simpler scientific studies, I know that sounds like a long way away. But the evidence is there, you are 100% correct. A Whole Foods plant-based diet is linked with longevity, and reduced risk of all sorts of diseases, not just rheumatoid arthritis. It is a way that our body is configured to consume things that we put in our mouth. And the the majority of folks are eating in a way that is more risk encouraging for disease. And so whilst a lot of people can get away with it, a lot of people can’t. And when Ella, myself, our community of people with adult rheumatoid arthritis, when we get slack and eat like them, we feel worse so it is discipline versus regret, you know. And right now you’ve got the discipline applied. Hopefully when she’s old enough, she will be self-disciplined and she will continue to live a tremendously healthy and pain-free life. So that’s the goal, right? That’s what we want.

Stanka and Ella – I hope so.

Clint – Yeah. So is there anything else you’d like to share? Because, you know, I wouldn’t want to leave something that we didn’t cover.

Stanka and Ella – Maybe only one thing. We went to a private clinic when the rheumatologist told us to go away and they gave us peptides. It’s something like stem cells that are helping your own cells to become healthy again. So they gave us something like this for her gut and for her immunity. And I think it really helped too. It was pretty fantastic to see when the joints swelling went away. Her joints were really stiff and she really cannot exercise with them, they were stiff. And we gave her stem cells for mobility, for the joints, and after three days, she climbed the stairs alone. And she was running and the joints were now no longer stiff. So I think this is really interesting, at least for me.

Clint – Totally. And I want to know a little bit more about it. So were the stem cells taken from her own blood? Tell me what happened.

Stanka and Ella – It is from rabbits, from the organs of a rabbit. They told me that it is pretty much the same as ours. So it is from a Rabbit and you can inject it, but in Slovakia, it is forbidden to inject it into people, only into animals. So we were giving it only orally every day, it’s liquid. And it helped, I could see that it is helping every day.

Clint – And was that something that went on for a long time?

Stanka and Ella – No, she only took it maybe two months for the gut, two months for the immunity, and two months for the joints.

Clint – Goodness. I’ve never heard of anything like this. This is something that is literally the first time I’ve ever heard of. So it’s a stem cell liquid treatment taken from rabbits that you consume orally for two months.

Stanka and Ella – Exactly. Yes.

Clint – Okay. Well, if anyone has questions about this, I do not have answers. Please don’t contact me about this, I don’t know what to say. So did you want to share a website with people who, if interested, to say which clinic you went to?

Stanka and Ella – Yeah, I can. The clinic is now closed but the product is called Biopulse and the company that is making it is from Slovakia and it is called VETCHEM.

Clint – Okay.

Stanka and Ella – I can write it for you and maybe you can share it then in the discussion or something. So Biopulse is really unique, I haven’t found anything like this in Europe at all, so I don’t know. But maybe it was supposed to be for Ella.

Clint – Yeah exactly. And so she hasn’t taken that since. It’s not something you’ve had to even consider for several years, correct?

Stanka and Ella – Correct. After COVID, I gave her the one for immunity for two weeks. And I had been taking it because, after COVID, I had inflammation of the heart. So they have also for the heart. So they really healed my heart without any medication.

Clint – It was like heartburn, is that what you had?

Stanka and Ella – Sorry, Sorry, I didn’t.

Clint – You said your heart was inflamed.

Stanka and Ella – Yes, my heart.

Clint – Hmm. Inflammation of the heart, not heartburn.

Stanka and Ella – No.

Clint – Okay. All right. Well, that’s something you’ve we’re getting off track a little bit. But is that something that you’ve had for a long time or?

Stanka and Ella – No, it was only after COVID.

Clint – Oh, right, got you COVID stirred it up? All right, well, let’s recap here. So, Ella was diagnosed in 2016 with rheumatoid arthritis. She was suggested to take Nurofen, Ibuprofen, and then to go on to get steroid injections into a joint and then to go on methotrexate. Mum’s Stanka said I want some time to think about it. Saw some other rheumatologists who only insisted do that or don’t come back. She followed the Paddison Program with modifications because it’s not designed for children and she aimed to make it more diverse. And we had discussions around that, which anyone should do because it’s not an out of the box for children. And then she also added lots of happiness strategies on top of that as well as this, this funky mixture that Slovakian base of three different sort of immune and the gut and something else that you mentioned and those mixtures which were taken for three months helped alongside also therapeutic movement of the joints. At first just by hand, mum was doing them by hand and then later getting her outside walking and then getting her into eventually ballet, which did not stir up the affected joints and now she is running again, has no symptoms. She had one setback during COVID but is now apart from having the elevated antibodies again. Symptom free and blood tests look as good as the doctors have ever seen. So it’s a pretty remarkable story, and thank you very much for coming on here and sharing. I know that you’re a tremendous mum and you’ve contacted me over the years when you know something not quite right. And you know, you’re aiming always for perfection. So I just want to say congratulations to you, Mum, for all that you’ve done to get your daughter into this circumstance right now, because it is all in. There’s no half-hearted effort when a child has JIA, it is all in and I can’t imagine anyone could have had more commitment to their daughter than what you have. So well done. You need a huge pat on the back.

Stanka and Ella – Thank you for saving my daughter’s life, literally. Thank you for being there for me. It really means so much to me. Thank you.

Clint – Well, thank you. And is Ella there for us just to say goodbye?

Stanka and Ella – She ran away.

Clint – It’s beautiful words to hear. She ran away, right? Flipping out the door. Not lying on the couch, but she got up and she ran away. And that’s all we could ask for.

Stanka and Ella – Yeah.

Clint – Thank you, and please thank Ella for me.

Stanka and Ella – Okay. Thank you. Bye bye.