We discuss in this podcast:
- Palindromic rheumatoid arthritis and its peculiarities
- The immediate effect of the two-day cleansing
- RA and social interactions
- How to reintroduce foods in our diet
- The Linden Method for anxiety
- How Gagan went into remission after one year on the Paddison Program
- Paddison Program and medications
- Mindfulness meditation and yoga
- How to distribute meals throughout the day
Clint Today, my guest is Gagan and she’s in the United Kingdom. And I’ve got a little story to share before I introduce her. So she’s a member of rheumatoid support and she’s sent me an update. I hadn’t heard from her prior to this and her update was very long. So she was providing me with a lot of background about her symptoms, how they started and how they prevent progressed very severely and her meeting with her rheumatologist and so on. And we’re about to hear about all this in just a moment. And I was expecting at the end a long list of questions, so Clint, what should I do? So how do I overcome this challenge and this challenge, which is normal for people wanting to use the service and to get my feedback on their situation. But as the long post got longer and longer, I’m realizing when she’s telling a story of recovery here and when I got right to the end of reading, I found out that she has nothing to ask of me other than to tell me an incredible story. And I immediately replied to her and said, Please, can you come on the podcast and share this because this is remarkable? And here she is today. So she was diagnosed with palindromic rheumatoid arthritis, a Sero positive case. So she had positive rheumatoid factor and positive anti CCP markers. And she’s about to tell us today how she has not only removed the symptoms of this condition, but has reversed her anti CCP markers in her bloodwork. And so it’s a great thrill to welcome her today. Thanks for joining us.
Gagan Thank you so much. And firstly, the reason for the essay was the thanks. I was so grateful that you had turned my life completely around and giving me many, many more years of quality life that I like. I’ve come through this story, I’ve got to thank the guy that’s, you know, has guided me through this process. It’s been amazing.
Clint Well, you know, one of the by far the best part of having a service where we help people with this condition is hearing the successes. And so, probably smiling throughout this entire interview because this stuff is so real. This isn’t like, you bought a car and you love your car and because it gives you some pleasure. This is like debilitating life-ruining, just family impacting, life-limiting, you know, just all-encompassing health condition that has been influenced so strongly through lifestyle changes that are based on research and they have provided you with the outcome that you’ve so desperately wanted. And I know some people listen to these or watch all these episodes and feel frustrated sometimes that they don’t get the same results as our guests. And so what I want people to keep in mind as they watch will listen to this episode is not to make comparisons and be disappointed if you aren’t further along the path than you want to be. But just look for insights and look for solutions that we might cover here, that you can apply at your stage of your journey that’s relevant for you. So that’s what I’m hoping, and that it’s becomes inspirational. So let’s let’s hear about, walk us through the sequence of events for your health, both deterioration and then the start of the interventions.
Gagan Right. So I started having mild symptoms after the birth of my second child back in August 2014. At that time, I didn’t connect it with any kind of chronic condition or anything, it was lower back pain I would get, my knees would hurt at times, my heel would hit hurt, my hip would hurt, but it wasn’t debilitating in any kind of way. And this kind of rumbled along for a couple of years until I got a virus, a viral stomach bug from which I was extremely unwell, and I just could not bounce back as such. So the virus was in October 2017, and by Christmas of that year I couldn’t walk more than 100 meters, I couldn’t climb stairs, I had extreme fatigue, I had pain everywhere. I was extremely depressed, very anxious, I could no longer drive, my neck was really bad. I was a danger to other people. You know, I couldn’t do the school run, I had two small children to look after. And I was sleeping probably 12 to 14 hours a day. And again, not being able to do much, I was just kind of pottering around the house, that was the maximum mobility that I had at the time.
Gagan So I then saw my GP for Christmas and she sent me for some basic blood tests and she said my inflammatory markers were raised. I had low vitamin D. I went down to 13 and she said it would be good to speak to a rheumatologist and then go from there. I didn’t get the rheumatology appointment until March the following year through the NHS. And on visiting her again, she took my bloods, I had a positive rheumatoid factor, positive anti CCP, elevated CRP levels, and it was palindromic rheumatoid arthritis. And her advice was to take aggressive early action in the form of a steroid injection, which she gave me on the spot and she prescribed hydroxy chloroquine and to take and then come back here in a few months time. And so me and my husband, we were attended this appointment, and even at the time, he did ask the question, has diet got anything to do with this? And she confidently said, no. She goes, exercise and eating healthily is good enough, but it’s not going to make any significant changes, it’s the medication that’s really going to help you. And we knew next to nothing about RA at the time, I didn’t know anybody personally, one in my close family that had suffered from it. I had memories of it, some friend of mine whose aunt had it as a member, as a child, a distant relative. I had known of a young person who had it, but they had kind of helped, they’d had some advice on diet and they had improved. But other than that, it was very scarce. So my husband, he took to scouring the Internet. I really I wasn’t kind of up to it at the time even I was so depressed and so just had so much brain fog. Even trying to look for solutions were very difficult at the time. And so my husband, found your TED talk and that was a turning point. And luckily, it was literally within a few days of the diagnosis, and he had a chemistry background himself. And he was like, I think this guy makes sense, this is what we need to do.
Gagan And so by Good Friday, we had a long Easter weekend. So for practical reasons, we packed off the kids, sent to the grandparents and we started the detox. So it was the celery juice and lots of greens.
Clint I get goose bumps, some seriously, I get goose bumps thinking about it, because anyone who’s not experienced the two day cleanse of celery juice and cucumber juice, I mean, the pain reduction is like for most people, a little disclaimer there for most people is phenomenal. So I’m hoping that you’ll also share that was your experience.
Gagan Yes, it was absolutely. Absolutely within you know, within those days itself, my body just started to shrink. I didn’t realise how swollen my knees were until they started to shrink. And I was like I just I didn’t even know they were that swollen. My hip, my whole body, I was dropping in the weight and I. I had just thought I was still carrying my baby weight from my second child, and I didn’t realise that I could shrink so much within a matter of days. And the fatigue was lifting, the pain was reducing, it was like magic. And what also was that when you have RA and you don’t know what your triggers are, Every day, every morning, you get up as a surprise. You don’t know whether you can have a good day, you can have a bad day, How are you going to feel where the pain is going to be in your body? It’s like, you know, stabbing the dark, It’s a complete mystery. But once I started on the program, I had this newfound predictability that if I’m sticking with these basic foods, I’ve got an idea of what tomorrow is going to be like. And it continued like that. And I was like, okay. I’m just eating very basic foods but it’s worth it, my life is changing, it was incredible.
Clint That was my experience, which was that you’re desperate for some certainty, you’re desperate for some repeatability and predictability. These words you don’t have when you’re just having like this random concept of flares and no cause inflammation. What we want so desperately when we’re inflamed and in pain and just hurting and miserable and lacking hope, is that we can have day after day where it’s consistent and predictable because you feel a sense of control. And that is so, so powerful.
Gagan Yeah, absolutely. Because you can’t attend social events, because you’ll put something in the diary and you never know what you going to be like that day. And then people think you’re just bailing on them left, right and center, and you just cannot plan your life. And when you’re at a state where I was, I was kind of stuck indoors. I couldn’t do the school run, I couldn’t walk a hundred meters even during the day when I was I would have to cook for a little bit. Sit down, get up again. You know, I was living a very, very compromised life that I can’t plan to do anything, I don’t know what tomorrow’s going to be like. The future was so unknown, I’m like, what am I gonna be like when my children are older? How am I going to raise them? And when I when I’ve got I was requiring help from my husband, my in-laws, my parents and I can’t raise my kids, I can’t help my kids, I’m dependent on other people’s health. I was like, I can’t live like this.
Clint The fear really digs deep when you project into the future and you think, okay, where will I be in one year, two years, five years? Where am I going to be in 10 years? And I see this in the US advertising for some of the big biologic drugs here and they use this. They know about this fear, we all have this fear about where we our joints going to deteriorate, what will they look like and feel like and how will they serve us in the future. And that’s that future projection and bringing those images forward into the present moment that scares the living heck out of us. And so, yeah, and it’s not fictitious. I mean, these things happen if the disease is uncontrolled, that it’s progressive, and that’s what’s so frightening as a condition. Sometimes I look at something like cancer and, the surgeons can go in and they give you the hopeful news that you want to receive afterward, that all cancer has been removed. And then you feel like, well, I’m cancer-free until if or when it returns. And that’s a good feeling. But with rheumatoid and these autoimmune inflammatory conditions, you kind of feel like you. Goodness me. It’s like with you forever working away at you in a negative way. And it’s just an awful thought process. So you’re in this mess and you’ve got all this and yet your husband’s gone and got the Paddison Program and you’ve cleansed and then so what was next? You started getting this consistent pain each day. You’re on the baseline portion, the elimination phase here. What happened?
Gagan Yeah. So we stayed on the baseline for I think was two weeks was required and I thought, well, well I signed with them to green mix just quinoa and the buckwheat. And one day because the amaranth hadn’t arrived, I ordered it through amazon and it has not arrived. Okay. Let’s play with the amaranth, it’s one of the basic greens and I had a huge reaction to the amaranth. Exactly, and my right hand just kind of had the pain in the center of my right hand was incredible. And by then, I’d had quite a few days of being having the pain reducing. So this system does work because I’ve just introduced something new, and I reacted. It might be something which a lot of people it suits. Like up until today, I have not tried amaranth it again because it frightened me so much. I’m sure I’d probably be fine with it now, okay, this work, this, you know, so I’m not going near amaranth again. But then slowly I start with the sweet potatoes and which were fantastic at the time and just stayed with the grain mix and greens.
Gagan But then after a few weeks, that becomes difficult because you’ve been eating the same food for a long time. And I wasn’t able to consume enough of the greens I was finding because my weight had dropped a bit. And so then again, my husband went onto your videos and he found a podcast where somebody had made them the green smoothies, that was life-changing again. And I would make one liter of green smoothie and consume that every day for about nine months. One liter of green smoothie for nine months is a long time. But at the same time, I was slowly introducing new foods and to see then how I would do but the green smoothie was a staple. It was a big, big, big change.
Clint And it’s a big change, and it’s absolutely a brilliant change. And it’s also not an unpleasant thing to consume, I love green smoothies. Whilst a liter of greens and fruit may not sound appetizing for people who are new to our channel or new to this concept. Once your taste buds get used to it and once you find the right combination that you like the right fruits and the right greens, I love them. Like Melissa’s been doing them again for me each afternoon, bless her and I can’t wait for each one is delicious.
Gagan And that was a good way that I could have introduced papaya. So that was nice, I was getting some fruit in and so I was lucky for me, the season had changed. The summer had come. It’s much easier to have a green smoothie in the summer in England. By comparison to the winter, you know where it can get quite cold. But it was very socially acceptable, I can take along my green smoothie and go places and it’s fine if it’s a picnic. So I’m fine. I’ve got my smoothie, it’s it’s great. It enables me to start to go out and about again. Even if it was taking my own lunch with me, it was fine, but at least I was present rather than my husband having to take the children out on their own, mommy’s at home not feeling well. So it kind of started my reintroduction to society because I had for probably (inaudible) six months to spend at home not being able to do much or go anywhere or see anybody. And then every time somebody did come and visit you kind of like you’re so and unwell.
Clint You don’t want to be seen; you want to hide.
Gagan I’m a young person and I don’t want to be this sick person that I haven’t died. And they were coming to visit me.
Clint It’s crazy. I recall that and throughout my, you know, years of experiments with the diet and the yoga and the really high inflamed years. All I wanted to do was show up because at the time my only income was stand up comedy. I just wanted to show up to the gig, do the gig, go home and then see no one again until my next gig. And prior to that, I was extremely social, I wanted to be the life of the party. I wanted to be doing crazy stuff and calling the boys at 2:00 in the morning. Come on, let’s go to the next. So, you just want to go inward. Well, my dad always puts it well. He says you look at animals when they’re sick and he often refers to the dogs that we have on our farm. He said when a dog gets sick, it goes lies under the water tank and it can stay there sometimes for two days. You won’t even see, the dog won’t eat, it won’t come out. And then it comes out and it’s perfect. It goes in sick for two days under the water tank and then it comes out and its perfect. And he said that you know and I often think of that because we’re the same you know, we just want to go and get under the water tank and hide. And then feel better and then come back out. And the dog of course when it’s under the tank it’s not eating, it’s fasting. We’re getting rest getting there.
Gagan So my physical symptoms were hugely improving. But I was having these one liters smoothie every day that was a major contributor. But by the end of the summer, I found that my mental health was suffering. I was still feeling anxious, social anxiety, I was suffering from that kind of reintroduction and seeing people. But then again, explaining what I’ve been doing and how I’ve been doing it. And then people like, are you sure this is the way? It’s nice to see you. I hope you get better. And I was still and I went to see my GP and said she sent me for CBT, a group therapy for people with chronic conditions. And my husband also found the Linden Method Flu. Where you can found your podcasts as well. I did that program and I slowly felt much better for it as well.
Clint Tell us about that. Because the Linden method has really helped some of our members. Can you do a quick like one or two minutes, just a quick recap of what was involved? If it was expensive? Can you do it at home and how it helped you?
Gagan You can do it at a home and can you buy them online. And it’s a series of videos that you can watch. And it’s a method of retraining your brain on how to deal with the social anxiety and how it’s to do with your creative side. And I remember that you’ve got this creative intelligence, that you are not this anxiety and it was a it’s a long time ago. But it was very helpful. I can’t remember how much it cost, but it was being exported online. And it was a series of videos that we had that watched. (Inaudible) six videos possibly. And then it slowly and they progressed and they taught you different ways of viewing things in life.
Clint That’s fabulous and I can thank Jackie for that. She’s a big fan.
Gagan That was found through one of your podcasts. And that was very helpful.
Clint Wonderful. So we’re seeing the improvements now as the sort of chronological evolution evolves with your story. Are you feeling better mentally, even though it’s still challenging? You’re probably getting some comments about your weight. Probably we haven’t seen you for so long. How come you know the. Why aren’t you eating with us tonight? What’s the green-ish looking juice?
Gagan I’m going to a restaurant with my pack lunch as well. Initially with my my father, not that day. And I had my pack lunch with them. They are very supportive. But I think you’re hiding in the restaurant. They’re going to be worried.
Clint But God forbid you to take a bite of the oily dinner because it was just sent back a month.
Gagan It wasn’t it’s not worth a little bit. I have been extremely disciplined. I’m not treated as such. I remember I look back at how bad I was. And when you start to see yourself progress, you’re too scared to go back to how you are. I always say I’m never going to be like that again. Never. I won’t let it happen. Because now you know the solution. I know how to not go back. You just you stick with it.
Clint It’s frightening and you also get addicted to the highest nutrient dense foods. And you get really excited about putting into your body like super fuel or basically like premium petrol that you put at the gas station. It just gets exciting like, what could I even do?
Clint Let’s add some sprouts to my salad with my green smoothie. And I’m like, I can’t even imagine the vibration of my energy. It just becomes like you want to almost take it to the highest possible level. So you’re not only taken probiotics, but now you’re doing sauerkraut. Well, what can we do with it? Let’s get some other flavors in our sauerkraut, you know? So You can become very excited by that. The massive health that you can be prepared. So that helps, Okay. What happened next?
Gagan What happened next? And so February two thousand and nineteen, I saw my rheumatologist again and she said I had gone into remission. And so that was really nice. That was within one year of starting the Paddison Program. So I was like, wow, this is amazing. I’d never thought I’d see the day. Remission is incredible how I can’t beat that. I can’t beat being in remission. That gave me more confidence. And she didn’t impose any medication on me either. She said, whatever you’re doing, stick with it. It’s obviously working for you because I know I forgot about the hot yoga, which I had obviously with these green smoothies. I did plenty of hot yoga, I was doing it regularly three times a week. And then as I improved, I reduced it to twice a week. And now I kind of go ad hoc basis and when I feel I need it. You just want to kind of loosen up a bit.
Clint And we also forgot about the plaquienil that you were on for only a short time as well.
Gagan Hydroxy chloroquine, is it same thing?
Clint Can you just remind the audience because I remember from your private post to me but in your mind. Can you tell the audience that you did go on that for a while?
Gagan Yes. It was just for five weeks because I was diagnosed on March the 13th. So immediately I started on the medication. And then two weeks later, I started the Paddison Program. So there was a three-week overlap between the Paddison Program and the medication. But because I had seen such improvement with the Paddison Program, I thought, I’m going to drop the medication and save. If the program doesn’t work and I’ll pick it up again later. I thought it’s not going anywhere. I wanted to give the Paddison Program a good chance first. And I’m not without anything else interfering because I didn’t. Then I wouldn’t be in this situation now. Is it the Paddison Program that’s working or is it the medication that’s working? I wouldn’t know.
Clint And that’s a common question. In fact, someone else asked me inside rheumatoid support last night whether or not they should start the program at the same time as Methotrexate. And there are a lot of subtle considerations that need to be taken into account Like the fact that the medication can take some time to begin, so that’s one factor. Another variable is how much pain you’re in. I mean, now you’re likely to want. Are you likely to need the medication anyway? And if that’s the case, then will we need to throw everything at the situation regardless? Based on her C-reactive protein, her physical symptoms and so forth, how medication adverse she is, how passionate she is about the interventions of the Paddison Program. And whether or not it’s something she’s dragging her feet or if she’s raring to go and willing to do like you did a huge compliant approach with massive determination.
Gagan I was really medication averse, because I feel I’m too young to start on medication because it will be then for the rest of my life. When I looked at the leaflet and saw all the side effects as I can’t be dealing dealing with this. No, I’m not, this is this is the last option. You know, if it has to be that way, I want to try other things, keep things as natural as possible. You know, you hear stories about people being able to heal themselves. I thought why, why would that not be possible? There’s gotta be another way, it’s just a matter of finding the solution.
Clint So when you went back to the rheumatologist that 12 months later, the same one that said diet had no impact at all, and I don’t know the answer to this. I’m not setting you up for this, but I don’t imagine that they were very interested in what you were doing or even recall telling you that diet didn’t matter and make an apology or anything. I imagine that was just very much shrug and just whatever you’re doing.
Gagan Yeah, it’s like she made note that this lady is carrying on with what she’s doing and that’s fine. And she’s kind of said the symptoms can come and go, that was the kind of approach. And she was like, oh, I’ll see you again in a few months. And we’ll see how things are then. And so I was I was really convinced that it was the Paddison Program that was working. She asked me a few questions, but it wasn’t very, she wasn’t digging deep. But the rheumatology nurse, on the other hand, was extremely helpful. And she was very interested in what I was doing, and she said, you just carry on with it because she was so nice to see and a success story. You know, and someone who is dealing well with the (inaudible), because I’m sure she sees many people who are not dealing with it. And she was very, very supportive, so she was lovely. But like you say, the rheumatologist was kind of standoffish up there, we’ll see where this goes.
Clint And yeah, it’s really it’s unsettling, It’s unsettling because he basically it’s almost like they give you that kind of, oh you’re doing well, wink thinking you’ll be back, you’ll be back. And my drugs will solve your problem. I’m tongue in cheek of course, because realistically that is the case for so much of the people they see. And you only see the same thing, same patterns repeat every single day. Then you’re going to be convinced of that’s the way things are. And let’s be real here, how many people actually want to live the way that you and I live right now? How many people want to restrict their diet to be plant based, and no oil, and Whole Foods? Because we’re going to hear about your diet in just a second. And you have advanced like I do, to eat high fat foods. You’re eating nuts, eating avocados. So it’s not a low fat diet forever, a low fat diet until you can eat the fat. That’s all it is. If you eat the fat on day to go for it.
Clint (inaudible) very uncommon. But if you can do low fat, it’s not a low fat diet, it’s a diet in which fat must be postponed until as I said until it doesn’t need to be anymore. And so how many people can do it? How many people are interested in doing it? Well, it’s stories like yours that need to be shared as much as possible so that people feel that it’s worth trying, they need an example. And we’re building a huge number of examples, but we need a lot more because there’s the scope of the size of the number of people who don’t believe it’s possible far outweigh the number of people who do.
Clint So let’s went on a little bit of a tangent there. But so you’ve met with her now and she’s giving you this kind of like, well, you’re doing great, keep it up. And then you went away from there. And then what did you do next?
Gagan I continued with the reintroduction of foods, but I also started a lot of mindfulness, meditation. And one guided meditation that I’d received from The Chronic Illnesses group that I found very useful. And just my general interest in yoga increase and mindfulness. And so I was trying to stress management as much as possible as well as reintroduction of foods. And then I went on to more grains like I could have, it took me a long time to even have white rice, I couldn’t tolerate it for a long time. And then lentils, oats. Oats changed my summer, summer 2019 was really, really incredible because of oats, it really uplifted my well-being. And I saw the oats were coming in and more fruits were coming in, frozen fruits. I found that I wasn’t able to tolerate bananas, but if I froze it, I can eat it. Watermelon, I couldn’t eat it fresh. I froze it, I could eat it. Berries, raspberries in particular, I can’t even eat fresh, but frozen that’s perfectly fine. And so that way I’m getting the nutrition as well and not having any reaction to it. And so all these foods came in over the summer and then I had another appointment at the end of last year.
Gagan So December 2019, and I saw the rheumatologist again, and I was going in there ready to see her with the mindset that can I come and see you in a year’s time now rather than every six months, that was where I was at in my mind. And as I go in there she kind of looks like my bloods and everything as she goes out, so what should we do now? And I said, can it be longer till I come back? And she goes, we can discharge you. I’m kind of like, what this is like you know, the ground opened and I was like, this is amazing. I cannot believe you, you know, she was happy. She just I’m happy for you to be discharged because your anti CCP has reversed. She checked into a physical examination. I had no signs of any kind of inflammation anywhere. And, you know, obviously, she could see from me generally that I had I’ve got no aches and pains, I was literally zero symptoms. And so she goes, yeah, you’re discharged and that’s it. You’re free to go, you’re free to live the rest of your life. Pain free, medication free.
Clint What a story. She won’t maybe say those words again because of the situation of her patient potentially for the rest of 2020, potentially for the next several years. What she’s observed with you and then the turnaround that you’ve achieved is phenomenal and so uncommon. You know, we hear it all the time on this podcast, on this show, right? And we start to think that that can be therefore quite achievable from most people is not the case. It’s a very, very, very long, hard road and your story is very remarkable and fantastic. As I said, common on this podcast, extremely, almost unheard of outside of these (inaudible).
Gagan The rest of real life.
Clint So that’s amazing. I just want to touch upon a couple of things that you mentioned and not to to to skim over them, because some people have probably like had as piqued their interest. One is the oats and the other is the freezing of the fruits. And I say them now, both of them at once, because I don’t want it for us to forget one or the other. So the first one, the oats. I just want to comment on that. I noticed a significant feeling of well-being after my morning meal changed to a pseudo grain mix for a very long time. (Inaudible)
Gagan Mine as well.
Clint And then honestly I can’t remember, if I was started to have rice based breakfasts. Which sounds really crazy again to Western. But in Japan, where I’ve been five times, they have rice for breakfast every morning.
Clint So it’s not a crazy thing. It’s not like wrong for the human body. It’s just we get into habits of when we eat certain foods.
Gagan Yeah, absolutely.
Clint You banned rice for breakfast. You kidding me? That’s normal, right? And so I can’t remember if I started having mega miso meal.
Clint So it’s in I can’t remember if I was doing that for breakfast for a period of time or whether or not I just continued with the pseudo green mix for much longer and then shifted to oats. But when oats came into my diet, which was about two years after starting sort of the pseudo grind a very long time. I definitely noticed health improvements, not just symptom improvement, but a feeling of more sustained energy levels.
Clint Just a feeling of strength came back. Your digestion felt good. So I just wanted to point that out because it’s been a long time since I’ve mentioned that. And I didn’t particularly seek out gluten free oats either. I didn’t make sure it was gluten.
Gagan Minor regular Scottish oats.
Clint And ending in a pure form oats are gluten free, but they get contaminated easy from cross crops, winds blow and you get a little bit wheat that gets small part get into the processing and so forth. And into the silos and into the end up into your food. But interesting, you also did not seek out a specifically gluten free flame.
Gagan But when I didn’t do the oats, it was my third attempt that was successful. I had tried to oats when I was on the program about six months. I thought, let me try oats. And I think I was knocked out for three days when my husband could describe it. It was really a real hit and I wasn’t expecting it because I’d been doing so well for so many months. How bad can it be with the oats? And they were. And then I was really scared to reintroduce them. So this was my third attempt with the oats, even with what the white rice was on my second attempt, that it was successful. Not because I could get those oats. I think also it made taking on lentils and pulses much easier as all they had been rejected a couple of times while and you’re on in the process. And so in the summer, I sorted the oats. And then by the winter, I was having all the lentils, all the pulses and all the beans.
Gagan And that was about the same time as I had been discharged. So I felt strong and I felt much more resistant, just like I 10 years younger. You know, I genuinely felt that the arteries and Ari was kind of a nightmare. And it’s over, especially the fact that I got discharged, I kind of felt I don’t have it anymore. And I was more open to trying, not everything. But when I was trying to really open about trying it, like mentally thinking that my body should accept this, I’ll be fine. I didn’t have that fear as much as you have. And you’re on because you get quite a lot of rejection in the early stages. But by this time, I know that this my body should be able to handle this. I feel strong and I’m doing it. I have so much healing has happened along the way and I can take this.
Clint Isn’t it interesting?
Gagan It’s amazing.
Clint It’s interesting. You talk about the you know, that the feeling of being discharged. It’s almost like you’ve been. Least you’ve given your self this change of definition as to what your life is about and what condition you do or don’t have.
Clint And you have just basically deeply at a cellular level decided. Now I’m a strong, healthy person. I’m no longer seeing that particular medical professional. And my blood markers are showing me clearly that I’m a healthy person now and that’s empowering. And thank you also for mentioning that it took you three goes to get the oats and you just want to remind our audience that. Oats, just like wheat, barley and all the cereal grains are huge and well known trigger for our right in the medical published literature. That’s something that we should not be eating.
Clint Once we, you know, realise that we have food sensitivities and stuff. And this is the fascination I have with oats or the sort of thing. The love affair that I have with them is that once you can get to a point where you can tolerate the oats, they then it’s a huge kind of indicator of where you’re at.
Clint Digestibility because it’s almost like a weight at the gym. You can’t lift the weight because It’s too heavy. But the day you can lift that weight, then your body as a result of lifting that weight then builds because it’s now getting much stronger. Cause now lifts that particular weight at the gym, which is the oats, and then it becomes better at everything than it does. Yes, this is powerhouse of digestion.
Clint It’s like the oats are so helpful. So it’s a real milestone here.
Clint It’s a huge milestone. And and it’s a threshold. You can’t tolerate it. But then when you can, it supports you. It’s the it’s incredible. (Inaudible)
Gagan Still my daily practice. If I know for a day, I’ve missed porridge and had toast instead. Oh, it’s the day is not going to work out as well. I’ve got to have porridge every day. And it’s one cup applied and half a litre of oatmeal. It’s a good portion of it as well. That’s what my body wants. That’s what it needs.
Clint Can I ask if curiosity, do you then snack mid-morning or does your breakfast get you through to lunch? And does your lunch also carry you through to dinner?
Gagan Oh, it gets me through to lunch. I don’t snack after that. And it’s normally I have about half of 7:00 in the morning. One day my kids breakfasts. And then I don’t then until midday.
Clint So that’s another good insight, these subtleties. My question is not just leads to nowhere, these subtleties can be transformative to people who are looking for the next breakthrough. Because I also found that eating a big meal and then less snacking. Then a big meal, less snacking seemed to work much better pain wise and inflammation reduction wise than eating all the time, because I just feel that, you just have your digestive system is just taking a break, isn’t it?
Gagan So you have to think about what do I need to eat next? Tthe next hour or so, I feel fuelled up for some time to get on with the rest of life. It’s not just about (Inaudible)
Clint And if someone’s not at that point yet because they can’t eat the oats yet They need to have the pseudo grain mix which can’t fill you up enough for most people to get you through to lunch. Then how you snack. Have you have your green smoothie and had some fruit or whatever it is. But there’s some advantages in being even than most with the oats in the morning. And the other question. So the other question ahead for me. What’s up with the freezing, the fruit? I’ve never heard of this before.
Gagan It wasn’t. What happened is that my mom was pre-diabetic and she went to a course and they suggested freezing bread to make it more digestible. There’s some thing in the chemistry does something to the sugars. And she tried and she said, “why do you try freezing some fruit?” And for the children, because I don’t they don’t eat ice cream generally much more. Because I’m dairy free kind. Our household is Mortons dairy free now anyway. Plant-based.
Gagan And so to give them a cemetery I started freezing some sliced watermelons and one day old they look really good. I want to try one. So I just by accident I had one and I had no reaction to it. This is great. Getting it’s like ice cream. And it’s t it’s a hot day. Nice cold piece of frozen watermelon is great. And I thought, let me try some other fruits and I do some nice screen for them with frozen bananas. And so I had a bit of that. This is wonderful. And let me try some berries and the raspberries. They were great just for some reason. Blueberries and strawberries. I still (Inaudible) I can feel the difference. The slight low grade twinge here or there and nothing to kind of stop my day. But I know I get something is on my radar. And so I’ve got no understanding of what what the real science is behind it. But it works for me.
Clint So I’ll have to ask my friends, Robby and Cyrus over at mastering diabetes, I’ll ask them because they knew and have these guys.That are just experts at blood glucose levels and insulin resistance. I mean, if they will have an answer as to why.
Gagan I still can’t eat a banana as it is, which I love bananas. So one day I might be able to.
Clint All right. Fantastic. Well, one enjoyable chat. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story with us very much.
Gagan Thank you for sharing yours. Otherwise, I wouldn’t I would not have had this story without you. So thank you. Thank you very much.
Clint Your very welcome. And like Melissa said, if we can just help one person by putting this information out there, it’ll be a worthwhile endeavor.
Clint And I can’t wait to tell her she’s off with the kids at the moment. And when she gets back, I’ll I’ll tell her, you know, some highlights from your wonderful story. And as I say to everyone at the end of these happy sort of positive stories, chats, the enemy now is only complacency. Right. So we can never allow the complacency to set in. Do not eat oil at a restaurant. Do not begin to start putting oils on your salad. You’re not going to become a Omega 3 deficient if you don’t put oils on your salad. Okay. We live the Life of Pi, we’re living with a wild animal. And the moment that we start to just think it’s normal to live with a wild animal and you can start to mess with it, it’s instincts attack and things can go wrong. So we don’t want that, we want to keep things on, keep the train on the tracks. And to do so, we need to remain not to take any crazy risks. And so I don’t think you’re going to do that, you’ve seen how bad things get.
Gagan Exactly. I’m not going back.
Clint It’s my duty of care.
Gagan I’ve got a new life, I wouldn’t mess it up.
Clint Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story.
Gagan Thank you so much.
Clint I really appreciate it. And just before we hit record, your husband set up the computer there and I can see how supportive he’s been.
Gagan He’s been incredible. I couldn’t have done it without him. Every step of the way, the research like finding the hot yoga, finding the Linden (inaudible), supporting me just this day is not easy to do. You know him on a logistics kind of way when you got a young family, he’s been there. I’m very, very grateful.
Clint Yeah, I can tell that. He’s just so caring. And he’s just, you know, I get to see how he wanted to to say thanks and high and stuff. And I could see he sort of was were very present, really present and I could tell. So, what I think just upon reflection just before we say bye, you have incorporated all aspects of the required healing path. Whilst we did talk a lot about diet, you talked about the emotional side of things, the mindset side of things, the support side of things, the exercise side of things, the medications you took for a little while and would have gone back there had you have needed to you were prepared to. So, you know, all of these pieces of the puzzle you engaged with, it wasn’t like you just decided just to change what you’re eating and nothing else change. No, you changed everything. And that’s what’s needed.
Gagan Yeah. Well, next week, I’m actually just about to start yoga teacher training, that really changed my whole life, yoga has done so much for me as well as, you know, it’s like I can help one person, it’s been worth it.
Clint Well, isn’t it a great ripple effect? Helping is contagious, I get goosebumps again just now. Helping is contagious. And so, a takeaway message to anyone who enjoyed this episode is who can you help? Who can you help? It feels good. Go and help someone, because helping someone else helps you tenfold, it’s like giving a gift. You know what it feels like when you give a gift and you watch that person’s life person’s when they’re opening the gifts. And so we all have a gift to offer regardless and where we’re at on our own healing journey. Some people don’t even know what a green smoothie is. We can all share how that can be done to someone else.
Gagan Yes, I have. Yes, I have on many occasions.
Clint All right. Well, with that in our mind, let’s say goodbye. And I look forward to chatting with you more inside rheumatoid support. Not that you’ll need much of my help. So I really want to thank you again.
Gagan Thank you.