We discuss in this interview how we can use our focussed intention as a powerful healing force. Dr. Manek shares a case study of reversing inflammation with Ankylosing Spondylitis.

• A bridge between Science and Spirit
• Food as a medicine
• A case study on Ankylosing Spondylitis
• Influencing body chemistry with physical therapy
• Entropy and the second law of thermodynamics
• Dr William A. Tiller’s work on human consciousness
• Consciousness as a source of energy
• Different levels of healing effects
• Looking at diet from an information theory point of view
• The role of intention and Dr Tiller’s experiments
• How information medicine affected pain levels in the case study
• Chaos theory and the butterfly effect

Clint – What a treat today, we have a wonderful, high profile yet super, super humble guest back on the podcast. You may be very familiar with her, it’s Dr. Nisha Manek Rheumatologist. And she’s such a wonderful person, she’s part of this year’s 2021 Rheumatoid Solutions Summit. I’m going to give her professional intro here. She’s going to be presenting today on the topic of the healing power of intention, a case report. It’s going to be really, really interesting. Dr. Minnick did her fellowship in rheumatology at Stanford University in California. She was faculty in the Division of Rheumatology at Mayo Clinic for more than 11 years. At Mayo Clinic, Nisha served on many boards, including the Inflammatory Arthritis Clinical Working Group. The task was setting the standard of care for patients with RA. Among the many awards that she’s received thus far, Nisha received the top educator award at Mayo Clinic Internal Medicine Program. Nisha has written several textbook chapters in scientific journal articles with an emphasis on osteoarthritis and published several articles in Premier Arthritis Journals. Author of the bestselling book Bridging Science and Spirit, The Genius Of William H. Tiller’s Physics and the Promise of Information Medicine, which currently maintains a perfect five star rating on Amazon. Thanks so much for joining us today, Nisha.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Hy, Clint, it’s always a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for having me again. I wish my mom would hear all this when you presented, she says, what are you doing again? You’re writing something more. Yes. So just go get a real job.

Clint – So I could have added so much more to that bio. I’ve spoken offline about how you met the Dalai Lama and you were approached by the organizers of an event at your hospital. Was it at Mayo Clinic?

Dr. Nisha Manek – That’s right.

Clint – They asked you to host the event of His Holiness when he came to visit. What an honor.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Yeah, I mean, talk about an amazing surprise when a head pops around in your office door and says Dr. Manek, would you mind hosting his Holiness? And I’m thinking, Oh, excuse me. Yes, we’d like you. Because I understand the eastern spiritual traditions. They knew that I used to host Taichi and talk about spirituality. So it seemed that was the name that popped up, and thank goodness because he was so much fun. To meet him, to meet his translator was a Mind and Life Institute Annual conference. I met with him for almost two hours on stage, and we talked about the history not only with the Mayo Clinic, but a great institution like Mayo is founded on spiritual principles. That means it’s founded on the intention of not only the Mayo brothers, but the Franciscan nuns of Mayo, so and it is a good thing to remind ourselves of this as I look at my title slide, The Healing power. The healing Power to establish something, whether it’s in your body, whether it’s outer conditions and in this case, the foundation of truly one of the greats in hospital medicine, Mayo.

Dr. Nisha Manek – So this is a case report that I’m so delighted, Clint, that we’re talking about because this is somebody I’ve looked after and I continue to follow to this day. And, you know, we’re going to talk about things that are really unusual and physics. The whole idea of physical illness and the science of physics you think where does Physics fit into this? I’m not talking about radiology, but I am going to cover that. Your human consciousness has the ability to move things by moving energy, your consciousness is a source of energy. And energy is very fundamentally a currency of the universe of nature. And so we’ll explore that together, and this is a connection very few people know about. Once your attendees, seminars and when they listen to this talk, I hope they get the greater concept firmly in. Because once you do, you look at life through a very different lens, it really wakes you up. What I’m going to talk to, these actually also covered in my book Bridging Science and Spirit. The word bridge is very significant here because the book is an engineering feat, in a sense. I have to be an engineer to really figure out what are the specific ideas in physics and science that takes us from where we are today in our understanding of nature all the way to spirit. Because science and Spirit seem to be very separate, and yet, I’ll tell you, they’re not separate at all. They’re complementary ways of knowledge. They’re complementary, they’re on the same level. I’m not going to disregard science and I don’t disregard spirituality and spiritual knowledge. They both have their value and they inform each other. Ok. This presentation summarizes more than a hundred papers, so this is a distillation of ideas, and sometimes your viewers may say, Well, I don’t quite understand that. That’s OK. Just let it sit with you. Pick up a copy of the book or come back to this lecture and view it again and again. Ok? It will. It will reveal itself to you.

Dr. Nisha Manek – One of the things that Mayo Clinic and it was very, very clear to me is that we can do all the excellence in chemistry, in our medicines, but food is medicine, OK? And so I took special training and integrative medicine to really refine my understanding and look at the evidence for many of our foodstuffs in our kitchen. Turmeric, cayenne pepper, cinnamon, cloves of oregano, there are many, many things that we use food is medicine. All right. But I wanted to expand my toolbox even more. If food can be medicine, then the next question is can human intention be used as a therapy? And this is an incredibly powerful question. How do you get around this? How do you really go to it?

Dr. Nisha Manek – So I want to introduce this patient and we’re going to call him Mark. He is a person I met while I was in rheumatology at Mayo Clinic in around 2006. He has a diagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis. An ankylosing spondylitis is a form of inflammatory arthritis that predominantly affects young males. It is a disease that affects the spine, the back and the lower back, as well as the peripheral joints. And it’s distinct from rheumatoid arthritis in in that way, rheumatoid does not affect the lower back, for example. So this gentleman came to see me with ankylosing spondylitis. By the time he came, he had at least five to six years of arthritis, It was mostly in his knees and elbow joints. And he had a genetic marker, which we call HLAB 27. This gene marker, if you have it, increases your risk for inflammation, and he had extreme pain, all joints, his knee joints, and left elbow was particularly bad. And then we did an outcome measure called the BASDAI Ankylosing Spondylitis Disease Activity Index, BASDAI. There’s it’s like a SED rate, SED rate over a benchmark of 20, 21, 25, 30 and so on we say is inflammation, well, the BASDIA is a score that takes many things into consideration and then you get a value zero to 10. His level was 8 when I first saw him, 8 is actually pretty high that’s very active ankylosing spondylitis. With that, get the BASDAI and tucked away in the back of your mind. This is a validated score that any Rheumatologist is going to do when they see somebody with ankylosing spondylitis. Now, by the time he came to see me, he had failed many of the traditional pain medications. The first line of therapy for ankylosing spondylitis is non-steroidal. For example, Ibuprofen, naproxen, (inaudible), and Voltaren.

Dr. Nisha Manek – These are the various classes and they’re really been shown in our research. In which, it benefits people with ankylosing spondylitis, he failed every class again ibuprofen, naproxen had failed them all. He was also getting cortisone injection into his knees and elbows by the time he saw me. Then, he would get maybe a couple of days of pain relief, but you would be right back where he was. Between 2006 to 2010, these biologics were now for lupus and for rheumatoid arthritis. Also, there was some experience in ankylosing spondylitis and I use them because we gave them Humira, Eternasaid, Enbrel. He was on really the standard of care at that time with biologics and he had no success. He was also on methotrexate for some time but had no success. Now, this is really just part of his excellence in conventional care. In the middle, you see ankylosing spondylitis in rheumatology and I sent him to pain management. He said the pain was 10 out of 10 and this is very high. Also, this is not the time to be using opiates, morphine, and this is not a good plan of care. I send into pain management to really open up biofeedback, all kinds of things to try and help his pain. He went to see orthopedics because there is something mechanically or structurally wrong with his elbow. Then, he actually had an MRI of his left elbow and there was a small lymph node in the epitrochlear region in the elbow. With that, they actually took it out and they thought maybe it’s irritating a nerve or something. His pain was absolutely the same and he said the pain was 11 out of 10. I send him to sports medicine at Mayo because these folks really were looking at platelet-rich injections as a way to treat pain. They had formed this new form of sports medicine therapy and I sent him there. Then they said he could worsen my pain and I don’t want to do it. With that, he actually went through back and forth. Then I asked him, do we do these new experimental platelet-rich plasma injections or not? Then, he decided against it. Occupational therapy is job was as a businessman and as a lawyer and so at his desk, everything was adjusted just so that his workstation was not irritating his joint symptoms. He went through physical therapy because, by the time you were seeing me, he was so disabled with his left elbow. He was pretty much in a sort of a sling and he had wasted away his arm muscles. It was holding it up and we were doing gentle physical therapy to really reverse some of this muscle atrophy. He saw a neurologist many times to see, was this unusual neuritis or was this an unusual genetic condition? We were really trying to cover our bases for this man who was failing to thrive. It is because he is at the peak of his career and failing to thrive. In his personal life, he was really raising golden retrievers but it goes out the window. He was a skier but it went out the window. He loved working out in the gym, but he canceled his gym membership. With that, you can see it was really sometimes working at home. Then, we have somebody here who really was just seeing things taken away one by one and it was very distressing. I came from an integrative perspective and we were also doing conventional. Then I said, let’s clean up your die and let’s really do adaptogens, which is adrenal support. Ashwagandha astrologist, which is a Chinese herb. I also gave him anti-inflammatory support with current humanoids, turmeric, resveratrol, and essential fatty acids with Omega-3. He was on muscle relaxant supplements like magnesium and his diet was really good. I mean, this is somebody who had a chef. He was eating fermented foods proteins like moringa to rebuild his muscle tissue and he was on homeopathy to really ease his pain. Arnica Montana is a type of homeopathy to safely reduce his pain. He had many lifestyle modifications at work, home, and his recreation really was put aside. I introduced him to guided meditation and really to write intentions out. I was just studying the tiller work at this time and I introduced and open up some of these perspectives for him. Whatever we were doing was from this cartoon from my book. We were really primarily focusing on changing his chemistry. We were trying to reduce his sedimentation rate and C-reactive protein. But we want to maintain his hemoglobin and things like that. We were really addressing the chemical milieu of the physical body of matter.

Dr. Nisha Manek – We know this that and he did some of this in physical therapy. When you apply external energy to your body, you can actually drive the chemistry such that you can impact its physical function. For example, 10 units in physical therapy and they put 10’s the unit on his elbow. They’re running with electrical currents and the hope is that he’ll get some pain relief. We know that electrical and magnetic energy fields can actually affect the chemistry, internal structures, and the function of a joint. Then the question is that subtle energies are cheap, and I won’t go into that here. It is because it can also impact the energy and the chemistry of the body. This really brings us to this big question, and we’re familiar with matter and energy. How does energy really impact chemistry? When we look at matter and energy, we know through Einstein that energy and matter are on an equivalent field. Energy is contained in the matter and that relationship is equal to MC^2. With that, energy equals matter times the speed of light squared. Each item of energy has a tremendous amount of energy tucked into it and this is the basis of nuclear energy. If you split atoms, you get nuclear power released and each atom has tremendous energy potential. With that, matter and energy are equivalent.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Then we come into the second law of thermodynamics, which is the law of the Universe. This is the one equation that I want your folks to just look at this. I know it looks like, it’s too many terms and this is my reaction. When I first saw this (inaudible), I don’t know if I can do this. But essentially, Gibbs free energy is what makes energy and nature run. What creates Delta G, which is free energy pressure times volume, which is a steam engine. Also, internal energy minus temperature times entropy. Any change in these terms to the right side of the equals sign can lead to Gibbs free energy and work. This is how physics sees energy and it is a way to do useful work. In medicine, energy is calories. In physics, energy is the capacity to do work. With that, this is really an important distinction in thinking and I want you to tuck that away

Clint – Before you move on, can you explain the definition of entropy?

Dr. Nisha Manek – Yeah, we’re coming to that. If we look at this Equation, we’re going to see that chemistry doesn’t change the pressure or volume of your body. It really works through this internal energy, entropy, and temperature terms. This is really what I’m coming to hear, the chemical potentials in drugs change Gibbs free energy through to E minus this term. This is where tablets were and this is where biologics work. Also, this is where steroids, Tylenol, and aspirin work. They’re important and we want to know that they actually obey the second law of thermodynamics. If we look at subtle energies or the PP term, when you press or press certain acupoints in the face or in the extremities.

Dr. Nisha Manek – This is actually doing something to the chemistry underneath through the pressure (inaudible). Now I won’t go into all these details, but it obeys the second law also. With that, the energy flow in the system organizes it. Also, energy flowing from the sun through all of the Earth, spheres, and through all of the system organizes it. Also, any energy transformation can be traced back to thermodynamics and the thermonuclear battery in the sky. Now, this is a cartoon from my book. We capture solar energy through plants or photosynthesis, which makes sugars that are eaten by us. Mitochondria use that to make ATP, which is how I can move. Also, it can excrete carbon dioxide and water as waste, which is cycled back and the plants use this.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Let’s go back to my patient because he’s now in dire straits. We’re throwing everything at the kitchen sink and conventionally he had failed biologics. He had failed a lot of the integrative therapies. He was on fermented foods, Omega-3, an anti-inflammatory diet, and he was doing everything. When you looked at his chart, this man was not doing well and he was now desperate. Then he says, I want something and anything can be done. I left Mayo Clinic by now to really study Tiller’s work and I sent him to a qigong master in Minneapolis and Master Chunyi Lin is the founder of Spring Forest Qigong. Mark went to him and Master Lin did subtle energy external qigong healing. With that, there was dramatic pain relief and we was like, wow, this is like a steroid effect, and what happened? But he was only there for only one day and that was amazing. In short, he did have an effect in just one day and here we are. We did the chemistry, I’m not doing some energetic work on him, and not just with the Tanz unit. It is because we’re doing subtle energy work. He had some effect, but only short-lived and this is where I broached this with my mentor.

Dr. Nisha Manek – This is William A. Tiller and he’s a professor of materials science and engineering at Stanford University, but he’s now retired. He’s 93 years old and he did lots of his really amazing work, not just conventional physics. His works from material science means he’s an expert in creating new materials to the knowledge of atoms and molecules, but he also did something very interesting. Along with conventional physics, he was also doing work on human consciousness and he did that in parallel with conventional physics. It is because he was so fascinated with, how can human beings have the capabilities to move things with qigong? Actually, he had studied qigong masters in the lab by this time and he was very fascinated with these things actually happening. We need to understand it in medicine and we didn’t have a good framework, but physics does. It is because physics starts to look at thermodynamics and equations. Also, how does this fit into the great scheme of things? Also, he was the perfect person to do this work. It is because he saw that when you hold it in tension, it is the very decision that starts to move the subtle energies in the body systems. When I asked him the question about Mark and he says, Nisha, you folks have done the best chemical medicine. Then, he added that the blocks in Mark are not chemistry-based and they’re only partly there. Also, it will fail and they’re not just energy. With that, we have to go to higher levels. I remember when he had this discussion with me, it seemed to hit home. The primary source is not chemical or energetic because they have to be at higher levels. When we look at this cartoon again, we have a cascade of healing effects from higher-level spirit, which is a source like the sun. Then, you have this cascade of healing effects. With that, they could be a block at any of these levels that give rise to entropy or that give rise to disorder. When you go on higher levels, you go to higher organizing principles. For me, it seemed very logical and now I know this seems complex, but let this step with you.

Dr. Nisha Manek – The universal law number two is that energy is connected with information and it is through the entropic function. Another way to look at entropy, the disorder is more likely and everything in the universe is marching to disorder. While in the physical body, we do things to the physical body. For example, we take vitamins, Omega-3, chemicals to keep it orderly, and we keep it tight against disorder. We’re all aging, having inflammation, and we’re all going to die one day. But as much as we can prevent that or prevent that from happening or elongating the time to that inevitability is possible. It is where medicine, nutrition, keeping our homes safe, having electricity, and all of that is order. But I want you to keep this also in your mind. It is because this is such a simple principle, but it is fundamentally true. We’ve come to this real genius here and his name is Erwin Schrodinger, who wrote this book What is Life? I really say this is worth a read and go read it. In this book, he says that life maintains itself on low entropy and he goes on to write in this book. In addition to energy content, its entropy content should also be displayed. Now, if you look at any packaging in a packet of crisps or a chocolate bar, you’d flip it around. Then, we look at energy like 250 kcal and that’s the energy you’re going to get. If you eat french fries, you’re going to get 500 calories in a french fries serving. He says entropy content should also be displayed and how does that look like? With that, let’s look at that because somebody has done this experiment. For example, somebody actually ate McDonald’s fries all the time for a month. What was it called? I can’t remember anyway, but you recognize his name.

Clint – Are you referring to the meal that the film super size me?

Dr. Nisha Manek – Yeah, that’s it and this has been done. As far as energy is concerned, you can survive on french fries for morning, afternoon, lunch, and dinner. But you are missing crucial information and it is required to keep your body as low entropy. This is it and look at this again. You can eat french fries all the time you want and you’ll get your energy content. But do you have a disease-free state? In which, he did not and super size me goes on to show that. But what if we gave him cauliflower? In my experience, it’s a worthwhile experiment. I write about grapefruit and you can do it with chocolate. You can do it with any kind of diet, but this is why diets fail. Even if you gave this man cauliflower, juiced cauliflower in the morning, steamed cauliflower in the afternoon, and then you give him fried cauliflower in the evening. The same energy equivalent of cauliflower and he would have a similarly unbalanced nutrition poor profile. Then, he would get into disorder and this is why he needs a low entropy diet, but this is a well-balanced diet. It’s information-rich and you can start to see that information is not just digital things. I’m really referring to the diversity and in the macronutrients. For example, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, a whole variety of color on your plate, and that’s a low entropy diet. Physics really now agrees that we used to say energy is everything.

Dr. Nisha Manek – No, information is everything and that is true. It is because you can get your energy this way, but you’re going to get disease. You want to have information on your energy intake. Whatever matter you take in, make sure it’s diverse with information-rich sources. I have to put my gratitude and my hat tip to Claude Shannon. Also, Tiller really loves China and he says this was one of the geniuses of physics. It is because he really broke down that information is physical, which he broke the information down into bits and into units. Just like the temperature is centigrade and Fahrenheit. Also, a unit of distances is yard or a meter or centimeter or a millimeter. Shannon broke the information down into pit zero and one, and everything can be broken down into that. Also, he is a mathematical genius and I invite you to really read this work. When it finally sunk in, I was amazed Because I could say hello or jombo in Swahili or (inaudible) this, he had made it into. Yes, Jambo. Hello. Into yes, OK, You can write that. Also, it’s distilled into a bit of information and I invite your seminar people to listen to this. It is because you will really amazingly open up your perspective into how this man opened the digital age. It is because suddenly we could see Mona Lisa. We can see art, music, and mathematics just at a drop on our screens. If I had to break down even the word Claude Shannon, father of information theory, you can actually translate this into zeros and ones, which is what I did here. This is compressed information into clear channel father of information Theory.

Clint – It’s fascinating, Nisha! It takes me back to my work because I used to do optoelectronics because my background is in laser physics. The way that you and I are communicating right now is that there is a semiconductor laser that is flicking on and off. It means that ones and zeros are sending an extremely fast signal of zeros and ones through an optical fiber under the ocean between Sydney and the United States. Then, it’s being translated back into a digital signal electrical signal also. Then, it transfers into your modem and it goes to your computer, which interprets, reconfigures the image and sound back onto our screens. It’s phenomenal, right?

Dr. Nisha Manek – (inaudible) press it into zeros and ones. Also, this was his genius and it’s his logarithmic to the base of two 0&1. Also, it’s actually quite simple and this is how Claude Shannon and Boltzmann are really together in information. Boltzmann was about thermodynamics and energy, but they actually are talking about fundamentally the same things and people can argue about it. Boltzmann and Claude Shannon are actually quite different and information is physical.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Let’s then talk about intention, because who creates that information? Who creates it? It’s my consciousness and through my intention it creates something. In this case, it was creating this talk to show up and communicate with Clint Paddison, but I like this. This is Tiller’s definition and he says, intention is a process of creation. With that, it’s just truly poetic and beautiful. We can say a dictionary is just one aim, but intention fundamentally is a process of creation. With that, we can create music, E=MC^2, 0 and 1, to be or not to be, music, and the Pi. It’s just we are creating things that physically endure, so you’re making it physically enduring out there and Tiller took this knowledge. Our intention is a process of creation, but does that intention actually do something out there or can it actually change a material? Remember, he’s a material scientist and he took water as his first target experiment. He said, let me test my intention to change this water with its pH without any additional physical components or chemical components. With that, the measurement accuracy was very fine with an electronic pH meter and he really knew the signs of human intention. Again, I’m compressing a lot of science here into this one slide. Human intention can be imprinted into an object and it can be a crystal. Also, it can be a little device like this that Tiller used. He used this device because it can be replicated by other physics laboratories. This is metastable and it’s excited above equilibrium state where it holds is a repository of human information. This is what he then used in his target experiments and this is so fantastic. When I first saw this, I thought that this is not possible. Then I asked myself, how can human intention in a box then go on to change water? But it does and I encourage people who are watching this to get my book because you get the whole bridge. It is possible because it has been done and replicated, and you can see the pH of water decreasing quickly. Also, carbon dioxide is dissolving and making it more acidic by thermodynamic calculations. The yellow band is where it would settle at, but you can see over some weeks it goes up against thermodynamics calculations. I mean, this is amazing and he did that with a pH-reducing intention. This shows us that human intention is incredibly powerful if you know how to use it.

Clint – Can I try and paraphrase what you’ve said? With that, I understand it correctly and our audience also is seeing the incredible outcomes that you’ve displayed on the screen here. Is this correct that the methodology was that Dr. Tiller used intention or purely thought? Then, he focused that intention into a device that could hold the intention energy or the intention state for a period of up to 6 months. Then he placed that device next to a glass of water, which was being measured for its pH. The intention that was imprinted into that device was that the pH would, in the first experiment, go up. Also, despite the trends of what that water would do. The intention that was stored and being released continuously from the device did indeed make the water pH rise continuously. Also, it was measured over a period of time. Is that correct?

Dr. Nisha Manek – Exactly! This is revolutionary science that he is able to show not to a brain function. But saying that this invisible thing we call consciousness and its tool is intention can actually do something. It can actually change measurably a huge signal by a pH unit. Also water, which is very familiar to us, OK? Then, he went on to do this with alkaline phosphatase. In other words, a human enzyme alkaline phosphatase is something that controls calcium and bone health, it is a liver enzyme too. With his intention, really ramped up the alkaline phosphatase chemical potential. With that, 5 molecules were doing the work of six, but there were only five molecules. He could actually increase the chemical activity of an enzyme in the petri dish just with this intention. Also, people have done this with cell growth and things like that, but he was doing it with alkaline phosphatase. Then, he went on to show this with the fruit fly. In a way that the fruit flies 2-week life cycle is shortened. Then, to where the fruit flies are maturing faster is making more fruit flies, which is a happier fruit fly. He called it the happy fruit flies and I thought that was very fun. It is because it was really coming from the heart that we should not destroy life systems. We need to do our science in a way that shows we are able to impact things very meaningfully and without destruction. When we look at coming back to medicine, we’ve seen that energy can affect chemistry, structure, and function very loosely. But we’re really extending this relationship to include intention and inflammation. With that, information has the power to change materials and living systems.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Let’s go back to my patient because I don’t want us to forget this. This is really an amazing thing that we did with Mark. He is here saying, I want something or anything done to help me. He is doing all of the integrative medicine, doing subtle energy, and he is having healing sessions with Master Chunyi Lin. Also, he had dramatic pain relief, but only for 24 hours. Then I broached Tiller and I said, you say it’s not in chemistry, it’s not energetic, and it must be higher up. Then Mark said, I want you to really come back into my sphere and really take on the healing. I said, I don’t know what else I can really do, but his chart was sent. Then, I called his rheumatologist and his rheumatologist says, I really don’t have much to offer him and I want you to do anything you want. Then, I read his chart and the neurology is saying, we have nothing to offer him. Either sports medicine and plasma-rich platelets are being rejected. I went through this 2 inch note and we knew that we’ve got to do something. Then Mark was saying, what are you going to do? Then I said, we’re going to do information medicine. Then Tiller says, he better know this is not FDA approved. I drew up a consent form for Mark to sign off and it was free. We had to arrive at a benchmark or 2 outcomes that he really wanted. All right, so there is me. Mark and Dr. Tiller, we had to arrive at a system to something his intention and you could see it. This sort of target would be meaningful for Mark. For me or as a scientist, I really was rigorous in my BASDAI scores and pain scores. He also had an MRI of his elbow at baseline in which you repeated every 6 months. Then, all of his interventions by his rheumatologists, if they were changed and I never interfered with them. I was just an information medicine person and this is the qualitative outcome. Also, this is really where it was so beautiful because there was cooperation between me and mark in Minneapolis. Also with Dr. Tiller in Arizona and I’ve never met him even today, and I only talked to him on the phone briefly. But ultimately it was Mark and me really nailing down the emotional, physical, and mental goals of the program. Then Tiller says, Are you sure about this? Mark actually said the pain relief he actually says reduction and he had lost hope by now that pain would even be impacted. Honestly, he had seen the world’s experts in pain and neurology. If it reduces, I’m OK with that, but he really wanted actually cardiac health. He was very afraid of dying from a heart attack because he couldn’t exercise and he’s a male white that has inflammation. He knew that if he was going to die, it’s from a heart attack. He says, I want my heart to be healthy. With that, Dr. Tiller took these things, these wishes, and created new information. He wrote a physical thing and it created new information on pen and paper, and it ended beautifully with thy will be done. I know this is at the summit because this is really important, Tillers surrendered the outcomes to God because he didn’t insist on anything you just said. Mark, this is what you want and I’m going to write it out, does this feel right? When Mark says, I think this is close and thy will be done. With that, we were all at peace with it. Me as his physician, Mark, and Tyler, we were in a creative process together.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Next is imprinting, and this is Dr. Tiller, Jane Tiller. Also, he has two other people and usually it is his lab assistant, Greg Fendell. He also has a fourth person and at that time it was Walter Dibble. The four of them go into meditation and imprint this device on a table. Once it’s imprinted, it’s shipped to Mark. When Tiller holds an intention, I’m like a light bulb and everything is like a destructive interference. It’s sort of there, but Tiller was like a laser. Just imagine this little thing here is like a device that holds that intention and it’s going to broadcast to mark like a laser. This is the one year information medicine program baseline 2012, and every three months we would check in. He had his baseline MRI here too and I would check in with the score systems, emotional and mental outcomes. Then, we would just keep going and every 3 months the device would be shipped back to Tiller to reprint it. It is because information leaks away and it goes back to equilibrium. This is Federal express and we would ship it out to him. Then he would unwrap it, plug it into his bedroom, let it run and that’s all he did. Sometimes Dr. Tiller would say, hold the device and give gratitude for the medicine or the information you’re receiving. Then I would collect his outcome measures and this is what really happened, which is very fascinating for me and Tiller. It is because we’d never done this before and this is very impressive. Mark was from feeling hopeless and full of anxiety, started to have a different language. I feel more hopeful, it was so striking, and you could say it was an inside-out healing. Whereas, we look at the joints, we look at the blood testing and imaging.

Dr. Nisha Manek – It’s an outside in healing and this was really strikingly inside out. He said, I don’t know and I still have pain, but I actually feel more hopeful. I just feel less anxiety and ut was really striking in his language on the phone.

Clint – This is a crucial slide that I’ve seen, but was he doing anything himself? Was he writing down these intentions and meditating? Was he also focusing on them and saying affirmations or was it all coming from the device that had been imprinted by the team of printers?

Dr. Nisha Manek – We didn’t give him any other direction other than on a rapid and plug it in into your home. If he was doing some taichi, but it wasn’t consistent and we didn’t give him directions. Tiller said that hold the device and give gratitude because it’s like a sacred object. It was in a very high level imprinted with healing or thy will be done information. Thy will be done is the Lord’s Prayer and I was just fascinated. Let’s see what happens here because we’ve done everything we can in the chemical, integrative medicine, energy, medicine, qigong, and this man is still suffering. This is interesting because his BASDAI score actually never budged. Also, his MRI exam was repeated in six months and there was a minimal enhancement at the elbow, but no synovitis. Also, synovial enhancement was really minimal. Then, Tiller and I would talk about this and we said we’re dealing with the non-linear program. With that, let’s give him two Tylenol, and then it’ll get better. It was nonlinear and will come to this what this means later on. Then Mark said, can you extend it or can we keep doing this every three months? With that, he liked it and we extended it to 36 months. Now, I would touch base with him every six months and beyond the 3 years I kept in touch. His program ended in 2015 and I would keep every six months touch base with. By this time, Tiller wasn’t sending him the device, but something was happening to him and he was not on any biologics. Then in July 2018, I call him up and asked him about his health. Then I asked him, how are you doing? Then he said, for no apparent reason my pain is gone. I said, what do you mean by that? He says, I just noticed overnight that my arm is moving and it was really his left elbow that would really bother him. This is fascinating because he sent me his BASDAI score and had gone into remission. Now, he is no longer employed and he’s retired, but he’s back to his old hobbies of golden retriever walking. It is because he loves dogs or golden retrievers and he walks them. Also, he’s not been on any further biologic since 2010. When this happened in July 2018, he wasn’t on any Enbrel, Humira, Ibuprofen, and he hadn’t had any injections. Also, he hadn’t seen the rheumatologist for a few years by then. Then I said, did you see or did you tell your doctor? He says, No, I don’t see them anymore because I don’t feel the need to go there. This is really interesting because suddenly something happened in his biology that we cannot completely explain. Then, I’ve presented this to other physicians and doctors. Then I said, how many of us in the room have seen a spontaneous remission in ankylosing spondylitis? With that, not one hand went up because I haven’t seen this. I’ve looked in the NIH for National Library of Medicine for case reports of people suddenly going into remission, and there’s no case like this. I have written this and I have put this in abstract form in international conferences. I have presented this work, but it does deserve a full-length paper. What was so fascinating to me was that multiple levels were more addressed. Also not just his physical, but his cardiac health. Then what was interesting, this was an inside out process and it was his emotions or anxiety that lifted very quickly. With that, it remained like that throughout. It was funny because even though his physical pain hadn’t alleviated, his emotions were taking and we’re taking the front seat. It is important because that engages your nervous system and your parasympathetic nervous system. Thus, it goes into various levels of your being and of your immune system function. The way Tiller does is a source of free energy to do useful work and very deep levels of mark. I think in chemical medicine, there is a disconnect because of the trajectory that Mark was on. We were doing fancy biologics, new things, new MRI, and injectable therapies, but that’s not what he wanted. Clever new molecules were not where Mark wanted to be and he doesn’t want that. When he contacted me he says, can I explore this energy and this information that you kept talking about? It is where we said, we’ll open it up in a compassionate way because it’s not FDA approved. You can do these things, but he has to sign a consent form. It is where we opened up all of the things that were meaningful for him and to create an intention statement.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Let’s get back to chemical or chemistry and medicine as we practice this. The real problem in medicine is we think in medicine that everything is predictable. For example Mechanistic thing or like the clock universe. Once you do this and you’ll get this. Once you get Humira, you’re going to get this. You take Tylenol and you’re going to get this. and by and large, it’s sort of OK ish, but we get stuck there. With that, we’re not in a clockwork universe anymore. To use an analogy, one degree shift in a ship’s direction will get you in a different direction. With just one degree shift and months later, that ship is in a different direction and it defies calculations. Dr. Tiller could predict microsystems systems, but this is a whole new level of complexity and a human system is just way more complex. As I was thinking about this and I’ve written this in the book in a different way, I’m going to put chaos theory or the butterfly effect. People might be familiar with the butterfly effect, which is by Edward Lorenz. He’s a meteorologist, he used to predict weather systems, and he used computer simulations of this. When he was doing this one day, he goes off for a coffee break and he comes back to the computer. Then he says, the calculations and what the computer had simulated were very different for two months. The stimulation was for 2 months prediction of what the weather might. Then he was like, how come this happened? He comes back after a coffee break and the computer had done something very different. Then, he looked at his calculations and what the computer had done very carefully. He saw that he had rounded off one variable 0.050612 and rounded it off, and that tiny alteration drastically transformed the whole pattern of simulation. In other words, he had a powerful insight and that tiny scrap of change can have magnitudes of consequences down the road.

Dr. Nisha Manek – With that, he called it the butterfly effect. A butterfly can flap its wings in South America and can have the consequences of a tornado in Kansas. He challenges the classical understanding of nature. Also, we think the body is like clockwork. We do this and it will be perfect, but human consciousness is there. Also, human systems are incredibly complex. For example, you can correct for the wind system, the temperature, and the humidity. We can correct the Omega-3 fish oils, give him turmeric and give him energy, but it isn’t predictable people. Let’s put this in Mark’s timeline. It is because that scrap of information or laser light that Tiller delivered to Mark’s system in the very beginning had imperceptible like a flap of a butterfly. It was there, he imprinted it, and the butterfly is there inside. With that, we cannot see it or we cannot measure it. It is because if I tested his blood system, measured his SED rate, and his BASDAI is the same. With that, we know that some changes are occurring. Ultimately, we saw a big shift in Mark and it happened like a nonlinear effect. He didn’t give up and he knew something was happening to him. Then he says, can I extend the program? Then Tiller says, I’ll be delighted to and we kept going. Then we ended it in 2015 but I kept following because the smallest change in Mark had kicked off a motion. With that, I was going to keep following up to see what the effect would be and he knew it was sustained. A Tylenol may not be sustained, but we take Tylenol again. We inject Humira in 2 weeks, again in 2 weeks, and this was sustained. Also, his program costs hundreds of thousands of dollars of Imaging, biochemicals, appointments, multiple specialists with their hands on deck, amd all trying to do their best. It’s fine and we want to do that, but this is something so unique. We can do all these genes and with HLAB 27 it was positive. He didn’t smoke environment, immune regulation, and with all of our things. All of these are variables that we’re familiar with, but we are forgetting information and field effects in healing. This is where the butterfly effect is taking place and it’s very important.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Let’s expand this mass-energy relationship of Einstein. Mass and energy become energy, and information is connected with consciousness. Also, we are the source of that information. This is beautiful because we’re not locked into this mass and energy all the time. We’re now becoming participants in life, mass, and energy relationships. One of the things I routinely ask my patients is, what gives you meaning? Just like with Mark, what gives your meaning? With that, I ended here and it’s a bit longer than I anticipated, Clint. But thank you for giving me this opportunity. To this day, I’m still extremely astonished that a tornado took place in a good way. In Mark’s life that he says, my pain is gone. I said, What do you mean? He said, it just, I don’t know and it went away. Until to this day, Tiller has still not met Mark.

Clint – What a gift from all of you who came together, including Dr. Tiller. To be able to put that intention into that device on such a frequent basis and keep that going. It is because it’s not the thing that we normally get to each day. For example, sitting down around the table and say, let’s all put our collective intention into someone else’s well-being. I mean, that is just obviously an extraordinarily beautiful thing to do for another human being.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Now, I’ve learned so much because of Tiller’s spiritual practices and songs. Then, he contemplates them and he brought to my mind that Matthew’s teaching. Wherein, two or more are gathered in my name and I am also in the midst of them. I’m sort of or probably getting it completely wrong, but you get the gist of it. Also, Dr. Tiller often says the unseen colleagues are with us. I think this was truly marvelous that this one man’s life changed deep inside his whole structure. Also, that chemical potential was jiggled in his body and you get a whole new chemistry. In his case, he took time and then boom there he goes. Also, children do this much quicker and Tiller has done this with children or autistic children. The feedback is like within the devices switched on and a mum in Australia actually said, my child, is speaking sentences. I think there is something very coherent and let me put it this way. Instead of disorder or entropy, he is nudging systems to a new coherence, does that make sense?

Clint – Absolutely! Now thinking in terms of audiences position here. Their questions would be, how can I incorporate this into my life? Also, does Dr. Tiller do one of these devices for each and every one of us, which we would all be blessed to have? The answer to that is you have provided a presentation just like this. You explained how we can implement intention into our lives to achieve healing and to achieve things that we so deeply desire in our summit session. It’s a free summit and for everyone who has enjoyed this, go to rheumatoid solutions and join the free summit. You will have as just a fascinating and wonderfully inspiring presentation is what Dr. Melnick has given us today. It teaches you step by step, how to manifest what you want in life by using the power of intention. Wherein, that focused energy creates a physical form in the future. It is fascinating and I’m not going to ask because the answer requires presentation.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Yes, go to that wonderful presentation! It is about the seven steps to creating a powerful intention.

Clint – What I will ask you then instead, how can people work with you or contact you? You’ve got your URLs on the screen, but for those just listening just cover that for us.

Dr. Nisha Manek – www.nishamanekmd.com is my general site and my book is, Bridging Science and Spirit. I really encourage your viewers or your followers to get this. It is because you can really dive in and this is a such an overview.

Speaker3 – This science works with universal laws and you just can’t go wrong. You can be on planet Jupiter or Moon and it still works. It is an alignment with natural laws and the word law is very significant here. It’s not quantum theory and I think once quantum theory develops even more. It will find that it is also a very important science. Also, information theory and laws of Thermodynamics is built on giants and it will serve you. To learn this science, you are growing in your own consciousness and your bandwidth expense. You’re not just a consumer passively of information because you are now a creator. I just encourage you all to www.nishamanekmd.com. There is a paper there on one of the aspects of Tiller’s science, which is the physical space and I won’t go into it here. Then rheumatology Santacruz and go there if you want to work with me. One of the limitations here is that I work with people with rheumatic diseases. I think it’s important because I know and understand their unique challenges. Also, this gentleman has ankylosing spondylitis, but I know rheumatoid, gout, lupus, and fibromyalgia. I also look after people with those conditions. If you do want to work with me, it’ll be more like a health and wellness coach. It is because I can’t always be a doctor to people all around the world with their regulations. Also, I want to be sensitive by all means. You can contact me through rheumatology Santacruz and I really do reply to messages. Then we can always see, is it a fit or does this make sense? Then by all means, contact me through that those two portals.

Speaker1 – Thank you, Dr. Manek. You have some people from our community who you’ve been working with for a very long time. In which are testimonials to the overlap between our philosophies and the way that you help people. You help people to head in the right direction with these things that are just so fundamental to human life. Also, it is why I get goosebumps on this topic. We spoke about this at our summit talk and there are just lots of goosebumps. I have the book that I bring with me everywhere and I take this everywhere.

Dr. Nisha Manek – You won’t believe it, but I have mine too.

Clint – Yours is a beautiful version, but mine’s a 20 cent grocery store version. But it does the trick because it’s not the paper, but it’s what’s on the paper.

Dr. Nisha Manek – The motivation you bring to it, the emotion, the curiosity, and the feeling of self-discovery. It was very interesting how Mark was hesitant about even addressing pain. He just was so worried about dying from heart failure or heart attack. When he put that out there and I said, I never realized it and I was just talking about the elbows. Then when he says, I really am worried about my heart. With that, he could talk freely and that exploration is very important. With that, we could put it into his intention and he felt it. Then he said, thank you. Then I said, let’s put you on a new aspirin. I’m not making small of these, but I think there was this reconnection for me as his physician. For him, I want to really go into this unknown area. I know there’s no guarantees, but it is so fun to really talk and get this off my chest,

Clint – Do you feel this is your calling in terms of the next stage of your professional career? Do you get more hype than excited about this area of helping people at the moment? Rather than, what you were getting say in your previous time before meeting Tiller?

Dr. Nisha Manek – I would say that science is really a key aspect of modern life. Science is limiting and I got limited very quickly in medicine. I wouldn’t say boring, but I found that I was in this invisible cage and it disturbed me quite a bit. It disturbed me to no end that I was throwing things and I was trying everything many times. But I would say 1/3 or 1 in 3 of my patients I would say, you’re doing this biologic. With that, it was very frustrating, limiting, I couldn’t accept it, and I was not going to stand for it. The exciting thing was when I realized that spirituality also is like science. Wherein, you do certain things and you look for outcomes. If you look at certain pathways and I’ve done retreats, the teacher, the guru, the Ricci is a Sanskrit term for a mentor, will say, has this happened to you? Also, they will ask you, tell me what’s going on. In a retreat, you have certain things or certain benchmarks and ut’s just like a science experiment. Have you reached this? Have you reached this? Have you reached this BASDAI score? In spirituality and science, we actually have and they are the same. I don’t know why we separate them and we shouldn’t be. I think Tiller was a gift in the sense that he really bridged the scientific method and the spiritual inquiry tightly together. When I wake up in the morning, I write my intentions, I do my meditation, and I read scripture. It could be Buddhist scripture, it could be Christian, and right now I’m reading Gita. They are different but it doesn’t matter because they’re all unified. It is because they’re all this non-duality and non-separation. From there, I can start or write my intention. For example, Father, please usher in a world of Robust consciousness. With that, I’m asking for world healing and I use language that I developed on my own. It is because after Tiller, we would discuss intention statements quite a lot. I write that because we have great upheaval and the transition is happening. Also, we watch it and we assist it. I’m not separate from things in Australia or Canada or California or anywhere else it is because I’m a participant. With that in mind, I may be in this little home or this little address, but I know that I am connected and entangled with all events. Thy will be done and so I write it, close it and say thanks. It is because of that awareness and I know that prayerful way reaches the ends of the cosmos.

Clint – Beautiful. Well, it’s certainly been wonderful to have this conversation and to learn from you today. I can imagine that you raised a few eyebrows and changed the mood at the rheumatology conference. It is when you presented this information amongst physicians, who would have heard just more incremental changes to drug treatments, medicines, and so forth. What a breath of fresh air this is, and thank you so much! Also, folks have the details on how to contact you and talk whether or not they might be able to get your help. Also, you’re a frequent member contributor to our members within rheumatoid solutions and rheumatoid support. You come on and you do our monthly live calls periodically as well. I’m very grateful for that. Thank you, Dr. Manek. This has been amazing and this is much appreciated.

Dr. Nisha Manek – Thank you, be well!